Nation: USA No.5

From Astro-Databank
Jump to: navigation, search
Nation: USA No.5 Gender: N/A
Signing of the Constitution
born on 17 September 1787 at 11:29 (= 11:29 AM )
Place Philadelphia PA, USA, 39n57, 75w09
Timezone LMT m75w09 (is local mean time)
Data source
Dirty data, conflicting times
Rodden Rating DD
Collector: Rodden
Astrology data s_su.18.gif s_vircol.18.gif 24°39' s_mo.18.gif s_sagcol.18.gif 04°55 Asc.s_sagcol.18.gif 02°25'


Date of the Signing of the Constitution, considered by some astrologers as the chart of the U.S.

Dates for rectification given with U.S. chart No.1.

This is the same exact data as that given for the birth of the Electoral College.

Source Notes

The date of the signing of the Constitution with a time given in the CAO newsletter 1975, Al H. Morrison. The data is for the signature that finalized an adoption of the present U.S. Constitution subject to ratification by the individual States. The latter came to pass and the Constitution was declared effective as of March 4, 1789.

Jackie Goldstein quotes Shelagh Kendal in American Astrology Magazine July 1987, pp. 32, citing Records of the Federal Contitution by Max Ferraud for date and time of signing as 9/17/1787 16:00:00 LAT. (An inexplicable quote as fine clocks were in use and the New Style calendar was effective.)

LMR quotes an article in Time magazine, 7/06/1987, "How the Deed Was Done," p.61. "A long argument between the strong-government men and the states'-righters colored many other issues...... On July 24, the convention named a five-man Committee of Detail to sort everything out and draft a coherent summary of all the votes. After nine days, they adjourned and Washington went fishing. The dwindling collection of delegates picked a five-man Committee of Style and Arrangement to undertake the actual writing of the Constitution.

"Although they were not supposed to change the substance of what the convention had so far decided ... all five were strong-government advocates. The actual writer was Gouverneur Morris, who re-wrote the original to read, "We, the People of the United States ...."

"When the committee presented its constitution on Sept.12, the delegates eagerly began trying to change things all over again.... (disagreements.... voting...). The changing continued right up to the scheduled closing day, September 17, but three delegates ... refused to sign. Franklin still had doubts and reservations, saying "I consent, sir, to this Constitution because I expect no better."

"Still ahead was nine months of bitter debate before the necessary nine states ratified what had been written that summer in Philadelphia. Ahead lay the creation of the Bill of Rights..... 13th Amendment .... 19th Amendment .... but it was on the 17th of September 1787 when Washington wrote in his journal, "The business being closed, the members adjourned to the City Tavern to dine, after which... retire to meditate on the momentous work which had been executed."

An article in the Santa Fe NM paper, The New Mexican, 11/17/1976, discloses that Historian Paul H. Smith of the Library of Congress uncovered evidence that Jefferson's memory misled him. In notes that he made seven years after the adoption, Jefferson wrote, "The debates having taken up the greater parts of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th days of July were, in the evening of the last, closed. The declaration was reported by the committee, agreed to by the house, and signed by every member present except Mr. Dickinson."

Historians were never comfortable with Jefferson's memory. There is near certainty that the declaration was not actually signed until it came back from the printer, sometime in August. As for the hour, the official journal indicated Congress convened at 9:00 AM, debated and quickly adopted the declaration and then went on to their other work.


  • Mundane : Political : Birth of State or Country (USA founding)