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Archivo: Commenti dei Visitatori relativamente ad AstrodienstL'archivo dei commenti è stato chiuso il 20 marzo 2007. La zona nuova del Foro apre il 21 marzo.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Stephen Replies: I don't think I assumed anything. How would I have known to go to where it says My Astro, and then click onto edit data? Not everybody is computer
Stephen G l a s e r Alois adds: no need to go ANYWHERE. The information is right there at the moment you enter a birthdate, time and place. Hello, I realize that when people download a natal chart, at this web site, that the software allows for whether a person was born under daylight savingstime. Unfortunately, the chart doesn't report whether not an individual was indeed born under daylight savings time. I would like it to, in case I need the information, for whatever reason. For example, it would be better if someone born under daylightsavings time had their natal chart say they we were born at, say, 3:00 PM EDT, rather than just 3:00PM. It would be very convenient.
Stephen G l a s e r Alois adds: Unfortunately, you have assumed things before looking. The timezone is announced on the data entry page, and standard or daylight saving time (and other more special timetypes) is indicated there, CLEARLY IN WORDS. Yyou can access this information any time, for any given data record, via the 'edit data for..' link. I've read Ur extraordinary write up on the horoscope signs BUT IM HAVING A REAL TOUGH TIME FIGURING OUT these 3 signs ''SAGITTARIUS'' , ''AQUARIUS'' ESPECIALLY PISCES... is it possible for u to give me a brief update on these so called Horoscope signs... Ur too kind, thanks a lot :) tc, regards fastFarhad
F.K.C. [ _tsaf/fast_farhad ät hotmail/com ]
I was told when creating a relocation chart degrees and minutes of the planets must remain same as in birth chart. Please clarify. Charles
Charles H o r e n e g a e [ filac/californialuvu ãt gmail/com ]
Operation Iraqi Freedom begins March 20, 2003 with Eris exactly conjunct Chiron in the USA chart at 20 Aries ruled by Mars in the 4th house of the home. Eris moves slowly and was only 1 degree away on 9/11. During this time and at the outbreak of the war, Eris was in supportive sextile to Mars in 7th house of open enemies in the American chart. Note the Martian restatement and remember Aries and Eris are brother and sister. Add Chiron for a deeply hurtful wound. Eris is opposed to Saturn in the US chart, exalted in Libra and further strengthened in his own house (10th). This is a position of authority, ambition, great world power as well as a possible exaggerated need for self-defense and a sensitiveness to public opinion. Furthermore, Eris is Point Focus, square to both ends of an opposition between Mercury in the 8th (Pluto’s house of secrecy) and Pluto in the 2nd (house of resources). Pluto alone in 2nd among other things indicates great national riches (Pluton) But its opposition to Mercury in 8th points to a deep need for secrecy with respect to intelligence and the free flow of information in the American chart. Eris-Mercury-Pluto T-Square brings together the themes of secret intelligence data (Mercury, Pluto, 8th opposition), rumor (Eris' reputation), possible lying (Mercury Pluto restatements), discord (Eris, Aries, Mars) and war (Mars, Aries, 7th) in a highly stressful configuration closely linked to the national chart of America.
Kent T o l l e y
Eris is discovered in 2003 the year America and UK go to war with Iraq. Eris, goddess of discord, sister to Ares, starts war by rumor and jealousy. The justification America presented to the world for invasion was the rumor that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and was in league with al Qaeda. Both assertions turned out to be false rumors but Eris has no allegiance to the truth. Eris is the uninvited guest to the wedding and having been slighted she is full of rage much like the disenfranchised radical elements of the Middle East. Eris and the more radical Islamic fundamentalists are willing to see the world go up in flames their rage is so deep. The synchronicity between recent events and the discovery of a dwarf planet that comes to be named Eris is remarkable.
Kent T o l l e y
Hi Max - With respect to Ares from Thrace, a footnote in Graves’(The Greek Myths: tells us “the Athenians disliked war except in the defense of liberty, or for some other equally cogent reason, and despised the Thracians as barbarous because they made it a pastime.” Already you can see the disapproval and ultimate evolution of a purely pugnacious god who fights for the perverse joy of it, and no thought of putting that fighting spirit in service to reason. I wonder if this is like Mars afflicted or unaspected in the chart, powerful but without a healthy connection to the ego, the higher organizing principle, the King. I think of this primitive Ares, stupid and uninformed and without adequate planning, as being let loose in Iraq in a blind rage but with faulty intelligence and no concern for the innocent bloodshed. To me, he is still very active in our psyche. He drives the freeways of Los Angeles in the form of road rage and he shoots an innocent nun for a statement by the Pope. He is very different from Athena, the strategist, a warrior with some humanity. There is some of this dual nature about war in the character of Achilles, portrayed even as recently as 2004 by Brad Pitt in the movie Troy. Achilles has no loyalty to the King and refuses to fight at Agamemnon’s will. It is a memory of the old Thracian god, Ares, the nearly perfect warrior, invincible but who fights without loyalty to any higher principle. At the same time, Achilles is actually more noble than rapacious Agamemnon and has loyalty to his own moral sense, his own inner King. He chooses his fights. He is smarter than the brutish Ajax, another throwback to Ares. He loves Briseis and Patroclus and it is because of them that he finally takes action. Don’t you find it amazing that Homer’s story has not grown tired? We are still making movies about it. The characters are still meaningful to us, although in the movie the gods are pretty much left out of it. For contemporary man the gods have become silly. We use the word myth to dismiss some concept as irrelevant and not real. We are becoming unconscious of the gods. At one point a very contemporary Brad Pitt says “the gods live through us.” But I agree with you, we modify the old stories to fit our contemporary understanding but there is something eternally true in the original story that still resonates in us as much as it must have resonated in the psyche of Alexander the Great. People like Joseph Campbell, Freud, Jung, Bruno Bettleheim, Marie-Louise von Franz, Emma Jung, and James Hillman remind us that the most ancient gods and the original myths are as contemporary as ever. They are the material of the collective unconscious and nightly appear in our dreams. They show up in the analyst’s consulting room in the drives and character of modern people. We disown the principles for which they stand at our own peril. We began this discussion about the naming of 2003 UB313. The IAU named the dwarf planet Eris. She is the sister of Ares, known to instigate war by the spread of rumor or jealousy. The Trojan War has its roots in the marriage between Peleus and Thetis, a sea-goddess. Peleus and Thetis had not invited Eris, the goddess of discord, to their marriage and the outraged goddess stormed into the wedding banquet and threw a golden apple onto the table and said the apple should go to whomever was the fairest. Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite each reached for the apple. To settle the matter, Zeus proclaims that Paris, prince of Troy and thought to be the most beautiful man alive, would act as the judge. Hermes takes the message to Paris and Paris agrees to act as the judge. Hera promised him power, Athena promised him wealth, and Aphrodite promised the most beautiful woman in the world. Paris, a Libran, chose Aphrodite, and she gave him Helen, wife of Menelaus as reward. We all know the rest of the story. We know it because it is close to the foundation of our Western culture. Even the most uneducated hillbilly isolated in some hollow in Appalachia America knows about the face that launched a thousand ships even though he has forgotten about Eris. For me, the comic characters Superman, Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, and Lois Lane are dim and pitiful reflections of Achilles, Patroclus, Agamemnon, and Helen. They have none of the nuance or awesomeness of the original cast and the story has lost it’s fascination and relevance to human existence. I think Homer will still be read in the year 3000 AD if we survive that long.
Kent T o l l e y Alois adds: Please, move this privte discussion either to email or to a discussion forum. The Astrodienst feedback page is not the right place for it. I have a question because I'm not sure of the relevance of time differences and readings. Every day I check my daily horoscope. However, with the time difference from Australia to London, my Wednesday horoscope only lasts til midday, where it then turns to thursday at my lunchtime according to your web page. So, is my horoscope in transition in lunchtime, or will it become relevant when it is actually thursday here?
Kelly D Alois adds: Please see the FAQ Why is my Daily Horoscope a day late / early? You simply have to scroll down the daily horoscope and use the link 'change reference place' to select the timezone to which you want the date and clock times referring to. It does not have be the timezone of the birth place, even when this is the default setting for 'reference place'. I am very grateful to Liz Green about the Career and vocation horoscope. It's very deeply interpretation of horoscope. And it is a real guide for my career. What is writing in this horoscope, is what I feel about my professional path. Also thank you to Alois for programming. And I have a question. How so fast the horoscope is coming to me, immediately after I make the order of e-horoscope? I thought that will take some days to make me a horoscope because is so individual. And I wondered when I received so fastly. I see u work with some program, which collected definite aspects of horoscope of a person??? Is it the same method of a psychological horoscope?
Eva E s h k e n a z i Alois adds: Thanks for the feedback, Eva. Working together with Liz Greene, we have developed a computer model of the way Liz analyses and interprets a chart. The first such model was created for the 'Psychological Horoscope'. The Career and Vocation horoscope came many years later, but uses an essentially very similar model of analysing and synthesizing the chart. More details of our methods are given in the article Computer Astrology with Artificial Intelligence It is this computer model which analyses the chart and composes the pre-written text elements into a concise report. When we started in 1987, it too our very power ful computers of that time several minutes to compose one report. Now, it has indeed become faster. It is a computer model which has embdedded a certain amount of Liz Greene's wisdom, and it is her empathic way of writing which provides the depth and quality of our reports. Dear Liz, I would like to thank you for our relationship horoscope which we recieved on Sunday and read it together with my partner. It took us a few hours to go through it. As we read it, we disccused what was written and I have to say that it went to great depth. It was so good to read it together, to see each other's immediate reaction, to hold each other when the old wounds re-opened. I think that we both know now where we are coming from, why we behave the way we do, where we can support each other, how to create an open and understanding relationship. Thank you very much again and take care
Katerina P e c h o v a
It is not such a common occurrance to come across such a thorough, efficient and professional website, that actually delivers what it promises. This is the best astrological web site i have ever come across, It really is Fantastic. Come to think of it, the only time I came across a problem was with my sons birth chart. I had done it before, and knew it was correct but when i entered his data (Seb ) the details of his chart were incorrect and the interpretation was nothing like him,until i thought of adding an hour to his time of birth. Once I'd done that it was fine. I thought perhaps it might have something to do with his b/day being in winter, but other charts that are during winter time came out correct and I thought i ought to let you know. You have no idea how much I appreciate this site, and i would like to congratulate and thank all the people who make this informative and very accurate information accessible. I intend to subscribe in the very near future. Marina.
Marina S p i t e r i Alois adds: Thanks for the kind feedback. I must say that our timezone database for Italy and for Malta is 100% correct. You should not modify the documented birth time of your son, and you should leave the data entry setting on our website in 'automatic'. if there is any discrepancy between a chart you received outside of astro.com and the chart in astro.com, they only reason can be that the outside chart contains an error. There are a few countries with disputable timezone history and possible shortcoming of our database for some historic periods, but Malta and Italy are NOT among those. Thank you for such a wonderful site! I found you just before my own astrologer for 13 years passed away on August 3, 2006. The reason for this note is that I just went into the ASTRO TWINS spot which is quite personally revealing to say the least , however what is most profound is there is a woman by the name of Sharon whose birthday is on the same day as mine.....7/23/1950. You have her listed as a rape victim. I am also a rape victim. between 2 and 5 years old. Do you have any other info on her or the day of the rape? Would be most appreciative for any info. I've been haunted for years and would love to bond with another.
thank you
Chikarella T a r e l l a [ akihc/chikarella ét aol/com ] Alois adds: The data in our 'vip' database originate from a collection made by Peter Niehenke, former head of the German astrological association (DAV). I do not know the origin of most of his data; only that a certain number of criminals and crime victims data are included for research reasons. You may try to contact Dr. Peter Niehenke directly, via his website www.niehenke.de - possibly he can tell you more, but I asume not. Certainly names of crime victims will not be their real names, and contact information is most likely not available. Hi Kent, thank you for your reply and the thought provoking points you make. A few of my own come to mind. I was using Robert Graves as a point of reference to surface the fact that culture and society evolve and mythology expands and archetypes germinate to keep up with new emerging societal trends. Actually, I believe it was something that Liz wrote about comparing the Greek Ares to the Roman Mars that comes to mind in terms of relevance to this point as well. It was not Sophecles who observed the new necessary attributes Mars needed to express these emerging societal trends. However an augmentation of a perviously defined archetype emerged and was necessary- the old Greek archetype of Ares was not applicable to new Roman society. I can't imagine that it would be such a stretch to conceive that our society today must be somehow evolved or augmented in some way from original Greek society (as Roman society had evolved in some way past the original Greek) calling for new definitions or at least augmentations of original Sopheclean archetypal definitions. Rather than multi-layer and force fit these new emerging trends into our ancient lexicon, what I thought would be relevant and interesting would be to use newly discovered astral bodies to define these trends with current iconography. Much as the ancient Greeks did, as examined by Graves, as they continued to write, define, and expand their mythology as new facets and trends in their society grew and emerged. So, you asked me to give you an example of a 'modern archetype' and while I do agree that the phrase 'modern archetype' is somewhat of a misnomer, I don't find it to be entirely invalid. Now, I am no Sophecles, and unfortunately I have not chosen this lifetime to devote to sociological study to be able to deliver such insight into human condition as our illustrious ancestor. However, I will take a loose stab at it with one of the examples you found to be inapplicable. I'd like to use Superman/Clark Kent as an example. I believe one of his most potent attributes, is that of a dual life. Clark is forced to hide the tremendous gift he has from the world. He must live in costume to protect this dual identity. I believe civilization today affords us the consciousness to be aware of the unfulfillment of our true calling- a calling that if realized could be as incredible as Superman's strength. This echoes and defines what I believe to be a strong and current theme in contemporary civilization that might be considered a modern archetype. Often people are confined into some existence while hiding another, perhaps more beautiful, powerful and fulfilling innate gift that might only be expressed 'in costume' whether it be in the confines of religion, sexuality, career, marriage, etc. Other elements of the Superman myth include fighting against 'great evils'. If there was ever more evident a chord for what so many are polarizing toward, each with their own perspectives of these evils, at this point in time in modern civilization this could be it. Even with just a bit more thought, I can imagine how the Clark Kent archetype could aspect with Venus, Jupiter or Pluto or what it might feel like in the 9th house or sitting Pisces for instance, but I will leave that to your imagination (o:
Max B l a c k
Thank you for your most comprehensive and interesting site. Are you contemplating to give explanations to moon node transits in the future?
R J
I think that Robert Hand is now using whole sign houses and in your daily horoscopes this isn't reflected, even though it is attributed to him. I am not sure what house system is used for this but it doesn't reflect his most current work. Also i am wondering if whole sign houses could be offered as a choice in the extended chart section of the web site. Thanks for the site. It is the best.
Mary S m i t h Alois adds: The daily horoscope is based on transits and uses the text which Robert hand wrote in the late 1970ies for a computerized report named 'Astral Forecast'. Astrodienst has acquired the US company which owned that text. The transit readings have also been published in book format, under the title 'Planets in Transit', but the computer usage predates the book. Most of the text refers to planetary aspects in transit and has no reference to houses at all. As far as transits through the houses are concerned, the original report used Placidus or Koch houses. Like any author, Robert Hand has developed his ideas over his lifetime and would not write the same text today he wrote thirty years ago. Also his view of astrological technique has changed in some repects. However, this does not invalidate what he wrote in younger years. His text remains the best book an planetary transits written so far, and at Astrodienst we are proud to own the worldwide exclusive right to use it in some of our computeriszed horoscope readings. Technically, whole sign houses are very simple. You only need to know your ascendant sign, and to count from there forward the signs = houses. Any ephemeris will give you the ingress of a planet into the next sign, and in this system, the next house. Personally, I consider the usage of whole sign houses a step backward into medieval and classical times. I respect individual astrologers who make decisions to move in that direction. They know probably more about the subject of ancient astrology than I do. But I am glad that the mainstream remains dedicated to more recent developments. A little more on the Relationship Horoscope would be much more exclusive, bringing my relation to this extroudenary web page, much more closer. Thanking You For Understanding,
Farhad C h i n o y [ _tsaf/fast_farhad ãt hotmail/com ]
I got the The Child's Horoscope for myself, and I am an adult...I've always been hauntd by my childhood years and always felt so LOST...I never had the chance to ask my biological parents for understaning to be healed....and Liz Greene did it for me..... I feel as if I could relax now and let things be...I can't say anymore. Honestly, it was too emotionally touching I cried.
Esther C h o
I would like to know if there will be changes in my next year´s yearly horoscope due to the fact that I will be spending my birthday this year in a different city than where I usually reside. I plan to buy your yearly horoscope but there seems to be no field to indicate this change in your astroshop area.
Thank you,
John P h e l p s Alois adds: The yearly forecasts we are offeering are technically based on transits and progressions. Both techniques work with the birth chart, not with relocated charts. If we would offer a Solar return reading - which we do not - then the place of residence might have to be considered. Even there, I am reluctant to think that the solar return can be 'fixed' by travelling to a particular place for the birthday. Some astrologers like to believe that, but I do not think that the powers underneath astrology can be manipulated so easily. I think real 'residence' is required to make a place effective for a whole year. As I said, not for transits, anyway. In CPA books since Greene and Sasportas “Luminaries” and “Inner Planets” (circa 1993) a new chart style is used. Various CPA books like Greene “Art of Stealing Fire”, “Apollo’s Chariot”, Reinhart “Saturn, Chiron and the Centaurs” or Harvey “Anima Mundi” (circa 2001 to present) a style of chart is used that has a hand-drawn look to it which is appealing. This style shows no aspect lines, proportional houses and uses an attractive astrological font. This may be the wrong place to ask but I thought someone might know. Is that chart style available to the general public?
Kent T o l l e y
Der Himmelskörper UB313 , verantwortlich für die Degradierung des einstigen Planeten Pluto. wurde nun kürzlich wegen dem Pluto-Streit Eris getauft, also nach der griechischen Göttin des Streits. Der Mond von Eris zudem Dysnomia, also Geist der Ungesetzlichkeit. Wenn man analog vergleicht, was nach der Entdeckung von Uranus oder Pluton weltweit geschah, muss man nun annehmen, dass wir vermehrt in ein Zeitalter des Streits und der Ungesetzlichkeit geraten?? Gibt es bereits Analysen dazu? Was ist Ihre Meinung?
Sylvia K o c m a n
to Pamela Young and Kent Tolley: Thank u very much girls for information about Pelletier. Yeah, I wanted some narrow information about him and I received it from u. But it was interesting for me to know his other aspects of horoscope and to know from where is come his deepest knowledge and insights. So-so I am understanding of advanced astrology. Thank u guys and take care
Eva E s h k e n a z i
Merci beaucoup Alois :) Vous avez été très rapide! A' propos de données de personnages publics, y-a-t'il una base de données sur astro.com? A' bientôt!
Maria P i l a r Alois adds: J'ai seulement cherché en Google... Notre base des données de naissance se trouve entre 'Horoscopes gratuits' -> Jumeaux astrologiques. Mais ce base n'est pas très actuél - l'auteur Peter Niehenke a arrêté l'entretien depuis plusieurs années. Goog Afternoom, I would like to obtain please the Birth Date of Pope Benedict XVI. Someone may help me?..... Thank you very much
Bonjour, Merci beaucoup.
email: maryapilar@yahoo.it
Maria P i l a r Alois adds: J'ai trouvé: 16 April 1927. 04:15 (am), Marktl, Allemagne für daniela Martin nicht übersetzt (Martin does not seem to be translated in the German site - maybe someone can translate the passage) : Englisch, traurig http://www.astro.com/mtp/mtp2_e.htm wish there was a trans for Thomas Ring
Bill Alois adds: Claire Martin's book is currently being translated into German; it will be only few weeks now until we have it. Thomas Ring is more complex - he is hard to translate into English. We have a bad translation which we inherited from a failed project, but we would do damage by publishing it. We have been working with someone revising this translation, but the project is currently stopped after about 150 pages, volume 1 is not complete yet. It need an excellent understanding of German (on the level of understading CG Jung, or Hegel) to translate Ring. Dear Alois You are doing such a fantabulous job for us all...the feedback/replies these days are a joy to read...
Muchos Gracias
xxx
Madeleine St J o h n s t o n- R o m a n o [ ledam/madeleine àt peacephilosopher/com/au ]
Hallo, Ich bin mir nicht sicher welcher Aspekt meines Horoskopes mich so depressiv und suicidal macht,und ob überhaupt. Die deutungen des Kurzhoroskopes sind natürlich sehr allgemein, ich kann keine Folgernungen daraus machen. Ein Rat würde mir sehr helfen! Danke
daniela
These are the highlights as I see them. Eva can take what she wants and leave the rest. Others may be interested in his chart in greater detail. No harm done is there?
Kent T o l l e y
I see Pamela Young and I replied simultaneously. :-) Pelletier includes his chart in: Planets in Aspect using Equal Houses. Quote in my reply are Placidus Houses. The differences are 1. Equal Houses - no 4th house stellium although still a stellium in Pisces. and 2. Equal Houses - Neptune in 10th instead of 9th.
Either way Neptune is emphasized and restated in his chart:
Kent T o l l e y
To Kent Tolley - With all due respect, I think maybe that's a little more detail than Eva needs or can handle right now, since she wanted to know his sign.
Pamela Y o u n g
Robert Pelletier: February 28, 1927 11:20 PM Dover, New Hampshire, USA Sun conjunct Jupiter (Cazimi) and Mercury conjunct Uranus all in Pisces in 4th house. Sun-Jupiter square to both ends of a Mars in Gemini opposition to Saturn in Sagittarius. Moon in Aquarius in 3rd house exactly trine Mars in Gemini in 7th. Neptune elevated conjuct MC in 9th. Scorpio rising, Pluto in 8th.
Kent T o l l e y
To Eva - Here's Robert Pelletier's birth data: February 28, 1927, @23:20 EST, Dover, New Hampshire, USA. He has his Sun in Pisces, Moon in Aquarius, and Scorpio rising.
Pamela Y o u n g
I forgot the mention the same thanks to Robert Hand, I like very much daily horoscopes - without them I cant live., and without Forecast too. It's very important for me.
Eva E s h k e n a z i
I want to tell some words about Robert Pelletier. I am impressed by his original and deeply insights analyses from Astro Click Portrait and personal portraits and e.t.c.I read his interpretations and they are so genuily, interesting and right to the character of my own personality. it will be interesting what is his sign and moon? But this is not important question, I just want to make a comment and to thanks.
Eva E s h k e n a z i
To Ian - Caring people have a wonderful way of making a difference in the lives they touch. This is how I feel about Astrologers and I'm truly happy you had your chart done and found a way to know yourself. It's one of the best experiences one can go thru. From what I gather it has been mind blowing. If I could make a suggestion there are many books on astrology to help you get even more knowledgeable on the subject. One that comes to mind is: THE HOUSES - Temples of the Sky by Deborah Houlding and can be bought from The Wessex Astrologer, PO Box 2751, Bournemouth, BH5 2AZ, England. It cost 14.95 pound sterling - it gets you to understand all the houses and could be a great help for beginners. Good Luck! I too went thru the same experience when I first consulted an Astrologer - it is only the beginning of a long and beautiful journey.
Edna B r i s s o n
Aloha Alois, I just want to say thank you for your answer and additional help. I really appreciate it and your additional help has given me much more insight into my personallity.
I am still wondering about my previous question though, which is Ian - Nando
Ian
it was some what THE BEST OF THE BEST or should i say better than the best... firstly i would like to thank the person/people who created this spectacular web page which has helped so many people understand Astrology in a more understanding and understandable way'. In perticular, Liz Greene's Psychological Horoscope has been very good and truly impressive. Once agian, Thanking you in many ways.
Farhad C h i n o y [ _tsaf/fast_farhad åt hotmail/com ]
Hi, again. I have another question. But it is not so question than a comment. I read from the Understanding astrology about rectification.I understand that you do not such service. I am attended astrologers and I have a friend astrologers even. Although I know my exact birth time, they always make me a rectification...and my time is change with one time and more and although the transits is almost the same, it has a considerable change. For example one important diference: Venus(and True nude) is in 11house in horoscope without rectification. But with rectification Venus and true nude change in 10h. I think that the characteristics of Venus in 10h. is more close to my personality. But it is impossible to wrong, as it says Richard Vetter the interpretion of the correct horoscope blind us. Especially when Venus is in Leo like mine. I am a little confused about rectification. But I think when I order it a horoscope I have to put a real time of birth, without any rectification??
Eva E s h k e n a z i Alois adds: It of course depends how reliably the 'real birth time' was recorded. If the person involved with that took the issue serious and knew about its importance, then 'rectification' HAS NO PLACE. It would be pure hybris. Personally, I have always been sceptical in regard to rectification. I see that each astrologer swears on HIS different technique, and that the results differ all the time. I also observe that it is mostly male astrologers who demand rectification. I am suspiscious that there is often an unconscious power game going on: the male astrologer wants to 'control' the birth time, one area which is really in the hands of the women, the mother giving birth, the widwife assisting. For my own children, I took care to look at my watch, when they were coming out. I would never think of 'rectification'. Hi, I see that you offer the Career and vocation horoscopes. I want to ask you whether you make a horoscope like Long-term perspectives or analyses(I mean concrete) but only for the career?? Or maybe in this horoscope Long-term perspectives that u propose in Astro shop now it have writtings(analyses-transits) for the career?
Eva E s h k e n a z i
Hi, I came across this comment, while surfing around your site: **any force in one direction always creates an opposite force with equal intensity.** My question is, how does the development of man fit in with this? We were once cavemen... etc... Thanks!
Richard C l a p p Alois adds: We are dealing with the principle 'actio = reactio' here. It is the third axiom of Newtonian mechanics. To what intent it applies outside the domain where it was formulated remains to be discussed. To think about that can be inspiring, e.g. in education. About the 'development of man' I am a bit sceptical. When did it happen, actually? When we look at how there was an age of enlightenment, some centuries ago, and now we face a fallback into religious fundamentalism, religious wars and terror, forced teaching of creationism in US schools etc etc. Hi, I'm love Astro.com and am particularly impressed with the accuracy of Forecast, as well as Portrait and Partner. I do have a question about Partner: Are their any plans on doing a Synastry Chart partner option in the future for Astro.com? I am a novice, at best, when it comes to Astrology, but by most accounts, Synastry is preferred over Composite for depth and accuracy when looking at relationships. I'm thrilled with my composite chart, but I am very curious what a Synastry Chart would reveal.
Thanks,
S.G. Alois adds: In terms of chart drawing, the synastry charts are under Extended Chart Selection. In terms of interpretation, a large section of Liz Greene's Relationship Horoscope is made of synastry aspects. Typically, the ten most important synastry aspects of a couple are discussed in chapter II of that report. It is not free, though, but it is pretty good. It is quite difficult to make sense in a synastry reading. Very often, there is too much information there, contradictorial, lacking order and structure, rarely a clear picture. Hi, Let me start by saying that I know nothing about astrology. I am overwhelmed by your horoscopes. In several instances, the forecast matched exactly what happened in my life in extreme detail. It feels like someone has seen my life in the future and wrote it down. Your horoscope predicted all my relationship problems, including the day my girlfriend and I broke up AND REASON why, previous fights we had (when I looked back in the horoscopes) and EXACTLY my moods. How is that possible? For as awesome as this is and powerful as this is it is a little bit scary. I know you say that we as individuals have the ultimate power of decision. Does it mean than, that I am floating and not making my own decisions, since everything matches so accurately? Is that a good/bad thing? I have also ordered my personal profile and every single aspect of my personallity in described accurately and in detail. That was incredible and that is allowing me to see aspects that I need to improve upon. I wish that the person who interprets the daily horoscopes would address these questions. Thanks much.
Ian Alois adds: Ian, I find that a bit scary, too. Astrology is not really that precise, in most cases. I am not sure whether to call you lucky. Sometimes it can be better to step a bit back, spend some days without looking into the horoscope, just live. The peronal portrait by Robert Pelletier, which you ordered, is sometimes a bit much on the 'concrete level'. I prefer the readings by Liz Greene, which go deeper into the psychological domain, and it the same time are finer in their nuances and their understanding of the 'whole' of a person, the Self. Pelletier is good with describing particular aspects or house placements, but the report lacks the synthesis element. Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren, hier geht es eig. weniger um ein feedback, als um die Frage, ob Sie mir etwas zum Thema Lillith empfehlen können an weierführender Literatur u.ä. Vielen Dank, beste Grüße Tanja M
Tanja Maria F r o i d l
Alois adds: Schauen Sie doch mal Homepage -> linke Spalte, Astrologie Wissen
-> Fachartikel zu Spezialthemen.
i figured out why i was so confused over my transits. i keep forgeting that even a major transit such as pluto squaring my sun and moon can indeed happen more than once. yes pluto was 'early', but i saw that there was less than a 10 degree seperation between transiting pluto and my natal neptune in capricorn. which means that transiting pluto will square my sun and moon once near the end of my natal eleventh house, and one more time at the begining of my twelfth house.
Kenneth N a d a r
I would like to order a horoscope online to be delivered to my email address. Why do I have to provide my postal address and phone number?
Linda A t t e r b u r y Alois adds: This is a legal requirement. Our contract with the credit card companies requires that we know the address of our customers. Also, for tax reasons we need to be able to demonstrate to the Swiss tax authorities (in principle) for each online sale that it was exported outside Switzerland. Otherwise, Swiss inland VAT would have to be added. We just keep the address on file for each transaction. If an order is for some reason suspicious, we might verify by phone that it really comes from you. To my experience the coming of a transit has more power of change than the vanishing part which is more of settling type. I guess it's harder to take energies of a problematic type (like squares or incompatible planets) when they build up to a maximum than when they vanish and ease and bring relief.
JG
Hello, I have 2 differing comments to make. One is an outstanding comment(s), the other is a bit, um, er, confused.
The first comment(s),
I looked to astrology, to try to understand the very
Since then, I look at Astrodienst every day...
Your site, the info here, has helped me, understand So, from my heart/life/mind thankyou. thomas liphard
Thomas L i p h a r d [ hpilt/tliphard èt aol/com ] Alois adds: Thanks for the feedback, Thomas. Regarding the Uranus/Neptune/Capricorn theme, I would expect input from astrologers who are more compentent than I am. A look into Liz Greene's book 'Neptune' may be a good start. The selection of transits for the daily horoscope is very complex, and we write about it in the FAQ: How do you determine which transit is selected for each day?. You need to understand that we cannot simply select 'the most important transit' for each day, because this would lead to many repetitions. When a day has two or more interesting events, we try to shift one of them by a day, to give different interesting reading for two days. We try to minimize the number of days with Moon transits selected as a theme. Those are really only place holders, if nothing more relvant is going on in your chart. Most transits extend over more than 24 hours and therefore touch several days. Of course we do not manipulate the data, but just choose another day when we show the theme. Nothing is ever shifted to a day on which it would not also be valid. To Linda of London, England - Kent Tolley has answered for me - you are responsible for your emotions and I don't apologize for that - also I thought we could express what we wanted in the Astro feedback - being French I had to look up the word tedius and all I can say to that is that I'd rather be tedious than hurtful.
Edna B r i s s o n
K Duncan - my guess to the constellation you mention [.. editied by webmaster ]
JG Alois adds: I suggest that we return to the actual purpose of the Astrodienst guestbook. Is is to provide feedback about the Astrodienst website and the services Astrodienst offers. It is clearly not intended to give astrological advice to individuals, by discussing their personal charts. I am afraid I will have to remove such posts in the future. I recommend to visit the Usenet newsgroup alt.astrology.moderated for such discussions, which are welcome there. A convenient way to reach it is via Google groups At some point in the future, when we find the time for it, Astrodienst may set up a discussion forum for astrological themes. In such a forum, personal chart discussions will be welcome and certainly contribute a lively feature. Well, just I want express my congratulation, your page is great..The page really helps me understand myself and others. As suggestion, could you the demo reports?
Josselyn T o v a r Alois adds: In the left column of the homepage you will find the link Report Samples. I assume this is what you were asking for. There are samples of all reports, in all offered languages. Recently we have started also to provide individualized 'free trial reports' on the 'Free Horoscopes' page. These very short trial reports give you a taste of what you can expect in your personal Astro Intelligence reports. The first such 'trial edition' was created for Liz Greene's Relationship Horoscope. More will follow in the near future. I would like insight and interpretations for transiting [... edited by webmaster]
K D u n c a n Alois adds: I am afraid the Astrodienst guestbook is not intended to provide astrological advice for individual charts or chart elements. The purpose of this guestbook is to provide feedback about the Astrodienst website and the services Astrodienst offers. I recommend to visit the Usenet newsgroup alt.astrology.moderated for such discussions, which are welcome there. A convenient way to reach it is via Google groups At some point in the future, when we find the time for it, Astrodienst may set up a discussion forum for astrological themes. In such a forum, personal chart discussions will be welcome and certainly contribute a lively feature. Anastazija - the square Saturn transits are difficult. They always strip what's not pure and try to lead you there. My guessing about your transits would be: the squares to Venus and Mercury helped you to restrain yourself on the giving side and helped you to communicate and think facts. The square to your Sun in 7th house may have altered your relation. Or made it harder to connect to others/customers and there might have been a change about how you now do artistic work, perhaps initiated by other people feedback? And I guess you may have had a beginning emotional crisis about your appeal or of your work when Saturn was heading conjunct Moon. Saturn square Saturn in Taurus/8 might change your way again. 8th house is also connected to the possesions/money of others (opposite house 2). It may therefore also be about giving and taking again. Some questions to think about: Does your work and your pricing reflect the highly spiritual constellation you have with Jupiter conjunct Neptune in Sagittarius and Venus in 6th house? Do you make same prices or does price vary depending on prospective customer? Do you give a part of your earnings to the needy/charity? Do you use it all for yourself? Or for shopping to look good? Do you help other artists, family and friends in their struggle as well? Have you ever tried to support a charity organization by your work? Are you satisfied with your earnings? Is it enough to pay the rent and make a living? Are you thankfull? Do you enjoy your work? Or do you long for something different? And so on. Your square Saturn mustn't put the finger onto these topics at all. Sometimes Saturn just 'checks'. But those 'checks' may go under the skin to the bone. Since Saturn is the custodian between the inside and the outside world and how they relate to each other. By the way, with Jupiter in Scorpio it is currently hard to believe in better times and especially for all those people having Jupiter/Sagittarius enhanced. I hope this is of help.
JG
I am interested in having Natascha Kampusch´s natal chart. Is this information available to anyone? I will appreciate this data very much. Be well.
Ines I n g o u v i l l e Alois adds: I am not aware of the complete data. Her birthdate is given as 17 February 1988. She was kidnapped on 2 March 1998, and escaped on 23 August 2006. The kidnapper is born 14 May 1962 in Vienna. Source: www.astrologix.de discussion forum. I am enjoying the service, although I know nothing about astrology, as my question will reveal: Is it the case that one's current location has no relevance to one's daily horoscope? Thanks.
Kongen Alois adds: The personal daily horoscope is based on the transits of the planets over your natal chart. This is why only the natal chart is relevant, not the place where you live. But if you want the exact time of the transit expressed in the timezone of the place where you live, you should use the feature at the bottom of the daily horoscope page 'choose reference place'. I just wanna tell you that although your horoscopes/forecasts have been pretty accurate in the past, there is quite a negative tone about most of your interpretations overall. I have come to find it rather depressing to read my horoscope here and I'm instead reading it at S. Millers page, and believe it or not but I have a much more positive outlook since. It would be great if you tried to see the postive a bit more in your interpretations, the tone is very much one of gloom doom and a bit teacher-y at times. all the best
Randy Alois adds: I am glad if you found a place which provides horoscopes fitting your taste. I think that expectations of people what they want from astrology and from astrologers vary. We try to give what we consider valuable and important. There is a large audience which gets from us exactly what they want. But a multitude of voices is needed. We can be only one. Anastazija: It might be a good idea to have your chart professionally done. I do understand the heaviness of the Saturn transits to your Sun and Moon - also perhaps they are squaring your Scorpio (?) ascendant but Jupiter through your 1st house should give you some kind of break, even before it reaches your 2nd house Jupiter end of November. Often we have a helpful transit (like your Jupiter transit) and a tricky one simultaneously (Saturn in hard aspect to your Sun/Moon,) so it may help to get professional expertise on how to understand working with the energies currently operating, and not feeling that you are powerless. Your earning capacity IS really good but it does not help to take a few planets and look at them, the overall picture ( the whole chart) should be considered. If a professional job is not possible, treat yourself to Liz Greene's book on Saturn (A New Look at an Old Devil) or Saturn in Transit (Erin Sullivan). Best wishes. Maggy Cassin
Maggy C a s s i n
FOR JG I know that very often Neptun is undermining the good constellation, but I think that in mu case, it help me. I make money with my own artistic work. It give me good inspirations in my paitings. I use it well, I think. When I have had return of Saturn, 6 years ago I begining my own business, and in the same moment I learnt control and save money. I spend it only when necessary. I have had before and now big difficultys with the transit of Saturn. In last 3-4 years it was 90° of my Venus (Aries 6 house), 90° of Mercury (Aries, 6 house), 90° of Sun (Toro, 7 house), 0° with Moon (Leo, 10 house), and now arrive 90° with Saturn (Taurus, 8 house). I have natal Saturn in big trine also in earth with Mars and Pluton. In the same moment I wait return of Jupiter . Natal Jupiter is 0° with famous Neptun in Sagittarius (2 house). I am readdy. What You thing about it??? Is very complicated situation?
Anastazija P a m p a l o n i
Maggy Cassin Thank You for Your answer and compliments about my city. Is nice to be here. I have had my Saturn return, 6 years ago. Now I have 35 and I live Transit of Saturn 0° in Moon and 90° of Sun in Taurus. Trust my is very hard and heavy. I woirk a lot and I wait transit of Jupiter on my natal Jupiter in Sagittarius and big trine. It will be very interesting to see what will change in my life. If You needd any exsplanations of Your card, ask me please. Ciao
Anastazija P a m p a l o n i
Kent - regarding your interpretaion of the T-cross in my birth chart. I see it a bit wider spread because there is also Saturn and Jupiter directly connected to the Sun/Mars square Uranus/Pluto and square Chiron. Saturn mirrored to the Sun (nearly equal distance from Capricorn axis) and trine Virgo ascendant and also linked to Chiron (semi-quintile). Jupiter sextile Sun and Jupiter quintile Mercury. And center of Jupiter/Saturn quincunx Uranus.
Actually I had enough chaos in childhood already. But I like creative
chaos And I think this generation (Chiron opp Uranus) has the ability to steal the fire from the gods again - the solar fire. Or looking at Pluto/Charon, the twin planet of the scorpio and the eagle, in my opinion they represent nuclear fision (the sting) and fusion (the wings), on a more personal level 'all transformations by sorrow and joy', for material and relational 'taking apart and bonding again'.
JG
Kent - thank you very much for your kind reply. I was hoping to get an idea of the meaning of chiron in house 6 and pisces for itself. My opinion about explaining planets in a book is that one better should distinguish between sign qualities and house qualities. House qualities and sign qualities are different, sign qualities are fix, not so house qualities because they depend on the sign quality of ascendant (first sign) and thus cannot be intermixed or equaled. About Chiron, my first interpretation of the Prometheus story was that he finally found a healer who took over his pain/disease and freed him. But the healer Chiron had no general cure to vanquish and eliminate those energies from himself. He should have had developed a way to clean his own energies in a ritual manner. Today, everyone working in healing should use those techniques to reconnect with one's own center - Yoga, Tai Chi, Qi Gong, breath meditation aso. By the way, a hydra-poisoned wound leads me back to Pluto. I feel a direct connection to nuclear energy and incurable genetic defects...
JG
my transits seem to be happening before their supposed to. pluto squares my sun and moon now, but this shouldn't happen until pluto moves into capricorn. my natal neptune in capricorn squares my sun and moon. so how can transiting pluto in sagittarius square my sun and moon when it is neptune in capricorn that squares my sun and moon in my chart??
Kenneth N a d a r Alois adds: I do not understand your problems, Maybe you confuse transiting planet and natal planet? To get support, please use the link 'report a problem' on exactly that horoscope output page where you believe to observe the problem. The link is at the bottom of the page. That way - and only that way - our support people can see the same page as you see. JG-
Some Chiron in 6th house themes: Since Prometheus (associated with Uranus by Liz Greene) is a titan he should be immortal by birth. Yet, some believe that Prometheus was granted immortality only after Heracles wounded Chiron with the Hydra-poisoned arrow. The wound proved incurable and Chiron wished to die, but being immortal, he could not. It was then that Prometheus offered himself to Zeus to be immortal in his stead, and the request was granted by the god. Chiron died and was released from eternal pain and Prometheus was unchained from the rock and obtained immortality. These two are related in the myth and they are in opposition for the generation between 1953-1973. In your chart this issue becomes personal. Your Sun-Mars is point focus to both ends of the opposition. The main character in your cast is an ardent hero on an adventurous journey and quest for understanding and he is a focus and a mouthpiece for that opposition’s energy.
Kent T o l l e y
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! For 20 months, I have wondered about my son's sign because he was born so close to the cusp, it was impossible for me to know without help. I now know that I am the mother of a beautiful Capricorn son. Thank you for making it so easy to find this important information. I will be ordering the complete profile for children and young people. Thanks again!!!
Thank Y o u!!!
Q: Chiron in house 6 in pisces? I couldn't really figure out from Melanie Reinhardts book about Chiron what this constellation is all about. She only defines Chiron in Pisces and sets it equal to Chiron in 12th house (Or in Virgo = in 6th house). Can somebody help lighting that one up a bit more? Thanks in advance.
JG
Anastazija -
it is the Neptune position in house 2 that gives the feeling of not having
enough or money is slipping through one's fingers. Neptune is undermining the
good constellation. Venus in house 6 also may be inclined to help others
making the money, your money. Jupiter in Sagittarius in house 2 may also make
you feel that you have or get more than it actually is.
JG
My semi-colons always get deleted. The 4 sections of the book, in case you couldn't tell where the divisions should be are: 1. Mythology of Neptune, 2. Psychology of Neptune, 3. the Collective (esoteric aspects, glamour, political Neptune and Neptune the artist), and 4. Cookbook section.
Kent T o l l e y
I think it was Bill who recently recommended Liz Greene’s book “The Astrological Neptune.” I wholeheartedly agree. Here are 500 pages with Ms. Greene at her best. Normally her books are transcribed lectures but here she sat down and wrote a book and it reflects that additional effort by being very thorough and carefully organized with loads of analysis of charts to illustrate her various points. It is divided into 4 parts: Mythology of Neptune Psychology of Neptune the Collective (esoteric aspects, glamour, political Neptune and Neptune the artist) with the final section being a cookbook description of Neptune in the houses, its aspects and its effects in synastry. Everything you ever wanted to know about Neptune is here. Reading how she approaches the chart and relates the archetypal ideas is the greatest lesson. Understanding a chart is a synthesis of astrological knowledge, mythological stories and psychological principles, all of which can be learned through careful study. Liz Greene goes further even than that and understanding the client becomes an imaginative and artistic discovery. This can't be taught and nobody does it better.
Kent T o l l e y
I just got Mona Riegger's Horoscope For Two. I accessed it both as a pdf file and as a webpage. I am puzzled that two people born in the early 1950s are described as _still young children_ – but only in the html version, not the pdf. I realize digital hiccups happen, but this elementary miscalculation makes me wonder what else in my report may be based on some inaccuracy.
Barbara Alois adds: I am sorry for this error in the html version. The html edition is very new, and apparently something is still going wrong there. I will fix it and let you know when that is done. I ordered a relationship horoscope by Liz Greene from this site last night, in a compulsive fit of pique. I've always been interested in ordering a Relationship Horoscope, but found the price forbidding. Furthermore, astrological engines are, well, engines and often produce rote and irrelevant interpretations. But my curiosity (and feelings of upset) overcame my reluctance. I've always viewed astrology as a more a source of potential (and often only half-relevant) insights, a self-indulgent source of entertainment and an emotional pacifier than anything particularly 'mystical'. Liz Greene has changed all that. Her powers of interpretation and divination border on the prophetic. It's downright spooky. As they say, it's not the method of divination but the diviner. 'm still not sure if I believe in 'astrology', but I believe in Liz Greene. Liz, I'm a huge fan. Thank you. - M. P.S. - Do you do personal (non-computer generated) readings?
M.
Anastazija: Of course you have a problem with money - all those fabulous shoes and bags to buy in Florence!!!!!! Seriously, I think the set up of your planets indicates good earning ABILITY but it does - with all the fire signs involved - tend to extravagance and trusting to luck. Possibly you don't think about the future much and with the Moon in Leo in the 10th you do want to look very good. Depending on how old you are, perhaps by your Saturn return (28-30 years), you will lchange your attitude, or priorities to handling money, but a lot of people would kill for such wonderful earning potential in their charts. AND you live in Florence....! Maggy Cassin
Maggy C a s s i n
Ciao, I am new here. I have Jupiter 0° with Neptun in Sagittarius in 2 house and 120° with Moon in Leo (10 house) and 120° with Venus in Aries (6 house), 60° with Uran (12 house). Why I have always problem with money. I think that is very strange for this excellent position of Jupiter. Can someone answer me??? Anastazija
Anastazija P a m p a l o n i
Excuse me, I take my post back. This is a guest book and a feedback area for questions not in FAQs.
Jack
Tom - If you think it's faux what would you have to feel guilty about?
Kent T o l l e y
Can anyone comment on Greene's comment page 313 The Astrological Neptune. How does an individual or a nation who has an absence of Neptune cope with this? Whats the alternative to dispossed subcultures and fanatical wars on the bogeymen? America, don't answer. It is necessary to hear what cultures who have a taste of Neptunian collective philosophy of suffering and sacrifice in the name of the public good have to say. Maybe Alois sees a need for expansion of the Pluto etc dialogue, but might it be polite if possible for the discussion to create its own web site?
Jack
Kent, stop all this faux contrition, or you'll start to make me feel guilty!
Tom L o n d o n
Linda - Even though I’m aware that you are responsible for your feelings I apologize for any part I had in irritating you. The world is already full enough with irritation and anger without my adding to it. My apologies to Tom as well.
Kent T o l l e y
Well Kent, I have to say that like Tom London I was getting a bit tired of your postings on the feedback columns and had actually stopped logging on…….however, all is now revealed, with a Sun conjunct the Ascendant and Leo stellium, it’s clear to see that you are doing the right thing, even if it makes me irritated. As for Edna, trial and error is the only way to learn, and you talk about primitive questions…….yet it looks like you’ve made some pretty rudimentary generalisations about Venus and Mars doing it for themselves…..!!! (shock, horror!) that is such a primitive statement! You may well be loathe to discontinue these discussions but quite frankly I'd welcome a end to some of this tedium!!
Linda
Edna - I would be happy to. I am NT, an intuitive thinking type. My chart is dominant in Air and Fire signatures. Six planets plus Ascendant in Air including Mercury conjunct Ascendant from the Gauquelin sector in the 12th house. Uranus leads all the planets around the Bowl like the engine of a train. Five trines between Gemini and Libra including Uranus trine Mercury. All that strengthens my Thinking function. All my planets are in the sky except the Sun which is rising in 1st, closely conjunct the Ascendant. Other Fire elements include Sun is trine Mars at the 9th cusp ( air signs but fire houses and fire planets) and sextile Jupiter (fire planet angular in fire sign - Leo). Jupiter is part of a lunar stellium in Sun-ruled Leo in the 10th house (Moon, Pluto, Jupiter, Node). Among other things Liz said that is sort of a hybrid between Mozart, Sarah Bernhart, and the hero in a fairy tale. The Leo planets are sextile both ends of the Air trines at the various midpoints between planets in Gemini and Libra. There is a lot of restatement of the Solar theme with the rising Sun and the angular Leo stellium. You would find me all morning in the Temple of Apollo. Afternoons I'm either at the temple of Aphrodite or at the cross-roads with Hermes. There are no temples to Hermes since you can't restrain him in a building. I have a Water void and only 2 planets in Earth. Liz told me I am a Puer Aeternus and I immediately recognized it as the truth. My inferior function is sensation. My car has needed cleaning for 2 weeks. And I agree with Goethe: “We can accept the unpleasant more readily than we can the inconsequential.”
Kent T o l l e y
Kent - I was wondering if you could share a few of your planets with us. You have given us so much knowledge as far as music, the arts, and the myths. It would give the novices a push in ordering the charts as you so cleverly explained earlier on. You stressed the importance of ordering our charts as I noticed that someone looked back and just realized that the chart was speaking to her in a more mature way now. One may find it difficult to go back to ones childhood but years ago there was a very popular therapy called The Primal Scream. It wasn't for everyone, again, but the people that did it, as far as I know, were truly helped. I don't recall if any of these therapies existed in Europe but they did in the States and Canada (in French) as far as I know. It would be nice to see from your chart where you get that erudite mind. When referring going back to school I assumed that you were happy there since you were, I am sure, quite smart. I enjoyed Pluto's interaction and the Myths but maybe now we can extend it more to concrete astrology - in my distrustful plutonian mind I would hate for Astrodienst to cut us off because we don't deal with astrology directly. You seem to have the latest in AstroFire and a very inquisitive mind - it would be a shame to keep it all to yourself. I once read that Pluto in Leo people have strong pride and a will to prevail despite obstacles. I'm sure that's not the only planet that gave us mass hero worship (the Beatles). I also read that it introduced the era of the Pleasure Principle hence your love of art and dancing. I can't help thinking how much it has a meaning in our charts. Even in the most civilized personality, Pluto is felt as an uncontrolled energy. Maybe this month we can discuss Saturn - where it is in our charts and its affect as this planet seems to play a strong role in our lives. Venus and Mars seem to take care of themselves as Venus is between us and the sun and Mars is the only planet whose orbit falls outside that of the earth. I'd hate to discontinue these discussions as when I look back there were a lot of very primitive questions in the feedbacks such as not knowing and not trusting Astrodient's position of the planets when it is, by all accounts, the most reliable.
Edna B r i s s o n
Nevermind. Operator error! Previously not knowing how to spell Czeck Republic I entered Prague into the Solar Fire Place and left the Country/State empty. Then I entered the correct Lat/Long for Prague into the input window. I just discovered that doesn't necessarily give you the correct results. When I specifed Prague, Czeck Republic and forced SF to do the lookup it changed his Ascendant to agree with the Astrodienst result to the exact degree and minute. Assuming the 00:15 birth time, Rilke is born with 20Virgo03 and his Sun is conjunct the IC within 6 degrees.
Kent T o l l e y
Alois - When I enter Rilke’s birth data (Dec 4, 1875, 00:15, Prague) into My Astro and get the Astrodienst chart it shows 20Virgo03 rising. When I enter the same data into Solar Fire Deluxe which uses your ephemeris it gives me 0Libra26 rising. Do you know if this is due to a local time correction that Astrodienst uses that Solar Fire may not? I trust the Astrodienst calculation above even Solar Fire since you are the author of the ephemeris my program uses and you are aware of local time corrections that Solar Fire may not take into consideration. In the instance of Rilke, the Virgo Ascendant places Sun on his IC whereas the Libra Ascendant places Venus on his IC. The Solar conjunction to the IC has a correlation, in my mind, to his identification with Orpheus, who is a child of Apollo.
Kent T o l l e y
And I feel I have learned so much for which I am extremely grateful. Thank you, Kent, and everyone else who participated.
Clarissa
For me it has been a very enjoyable discussion. Thinking about Hades/Pluto this month has clarified some important things for me. From Alois’ reply to Bill I have this image of many of us squeezed into the little foyer of the school house like over-eager children, the boys pushing at each other a little as boys will do but mostly all of us happy to see each other and already excitedly discussing the subject of the month while the kindly head-master struggles on the other side of the door, searching among the keys on his ring to find the right one to open the door to the main class room which will allow us all to spill in.
Kent T o l l e y
To Kent - You make me feel like dancing - and I do know the Samba - my remarks about music and art were not true - they don't hurt me they make me light hearted. I realize that for some people talking about childhood experiences can be painful but if we don't deal with them they can show up in illnesses. There are many books on that subject, in particular by Louise Hay - You can Heal Your Life! At first it's hard to swallow but if you can deal with it it works - affirmations. Again this is for the spiritual people and not those closed to everything but their point of view - By the way I am not from the Pluto in Leo generation but from Pluto in Cancer where wars were fought in Europe just for supremacy and the almighty dollar. The attrocities that went on there should be enough to wake us upand try for something better such as Mr. Clinton who is (censored) bent at erasing hunger. You cannot do this until you have cleansed yourself of all your demons (if that's possible) and we all know he had a few. With his Sun in Leo (proud) he has even enrolled his opposite political party friend - George Bush and together they are working hard. I have problems looking at commercials on world hunger but can admire someone who does something about it. We are very lucky to get a few erudite people on this site who know what they are talking about and give a little more than what we already know or wish we didn't know - it brought me back to dancing and I can't get that song out of my head now - it surely is better than the few thoughts I had before as with Saturn in Leo you can be a little down. So there - my next achievement is reading books on myths did a long time ago and when I read that Saturn ate his children and I have a conj. in saturn that was it - now thanks to Kent Folley I am open to art, dancing and Myths. Watch out world!!!
Edna B r i s s o n
Yes, Alois, that's a great idea. A separate forum on astrological aspects in general and their effects on individuals, known and unknown, and feedback restored to it's original purpose.
Clarissa
Mr London I think it wise of Alois to let this take shape, to look at the discussion in reference to other dynamics. How is Alois? If I remember his back is hurt and he isn't running marathons. I hope well.
Bill Alois adds: My back was always fine, my shin bone was hurt, but I am runnign again. When we have time, we will set up a proper discussion forum, and return the guestbook to what is was meant to be. Tom London - you could just have meant me as well! But I have to admit that I am not Pluto in Leo generation. And if I hadn't come to terms with my parents I wouldn't have written such things about me at all. I am wondering why you get so upset about discussions about these topics? My feeling about astrology is all about this, helping people to get a better view of themselves and clearing up things from the past. Putting all the blame to ones parents isn't a solution that is future-oriented because it doesn't solve anything and it doesn't prevent from doing exactly the same things in the same situations as ones parents did - former victim often becomes committer. A real healing can only happen inside oneself. And only after the happenings in the past are consciously processed and not repressed, declined or diverted any more (and ones survival as a child may have just required exactly this). And one has to develop/learn alternative ways of (re)acting - hardly done subliminally. Of course one could also say 'what doesn't kill me makes me harder' and go on as is (viking approach). But this works only to the point where hammer meets crystal - in astrology terms: Pluto. Or until the drops finally hollowed the stone - Neptune.
JG
Tom London - In my point I was trying to pick up a thread about Orpheus, a myth related to Hades which we have been discussing since the subject came up last month with Pluto’s new status. I was trying to weave that thread together with another about childhood unhappiness and abuse and it’s astrological indications and implications, a subject we have also been discussing this month. My point is that our lives are like a fabric of joy and sorrow, beauty and terror. The samba, a music which celebrates both the light and the dark, has that same warp and woof. I think the soul is not really satisfied to remain always in the light and a Disneyland happiness. It feels lied to. Pluto will not tolerate superficiality and you’ve seen his reaction to Persephone’s unnaturally prolonged innocence. If Pluto is anything to me it is “crueler than truth” and somehow we must find a way to deal with that and at the same time not be crushed by it. The philosophy behind samba is one way. You can celebrate both the joy and the woe of the world in a soulful music. You can even dance. I am actually the one from the “self obsessed” Pluto in Leo generation and I marvel at how in one over-simplistic generalization you have managed to marginalize and sit in judgement of an entire generation. What you said about Pluto in Leo has become cliche and shows a rather superficial understanding of Hades. I was wondering if you actually have anything constructive to offer or do you see your function more as a policeman in this discussion.
Kent T o l l e y
I haven't found any other place on the website for contact information, or ways to communicate with the people who run the site. So this will have to do. About 6 years ago, I ordered Psychological and Relationship horoscopes. The person I ordered the latter horoscope about was a soulmate who I wasn't able to form a love relationship with at that time, despite our soul-stirring connection. Nevertheless, he showed back up in my life after 6 years, and this happened just last week. This happenstance drove me to look at the relationship horoscope I'd ordered about us long ago. The contents were even more relevant today than they were back then. But, even more astonishing, tonight when I was looking at the booklet under a certain light, I saw that there was a FACE imprinted on the front page! I pulled out the psychological one as well, and saw the same face. I can only assume this was deliberate, but disturbing, nonetheless. Can you please tell me why the face was there? Has anyone else who has ordered personal, extended horoscopes experienced the same thing? It was very bizarre...
Heidi A.
Most of Astrodienst Feedback has over recent weeks become a discussion arena for just a few individuals. Much of it is interesting, but please lighten up and get away from the topic of child abuse. I just bet you are all from the self-obsessed “Pluto in Leo” generation, who blame their parents for everything and then have to tell everyone about it. And please keep it to astrology. Even the supremely erudite Kent Tolley is off on a tangent, somewhere between Ipanema and Copacabana beaches.
Tom L o n d o n
Hello, I was looking at my composite chart with my boyfriend, and it appears that we have 5 grand trines (all of which are in fire signs, which i am completely lacking in my own chart) and a T square, also a stellium in the 8th house with 5 planets. I don't know much about astrology, at least not enough to satisfy my curiosity, so I was wondering if you could help me out and tell me if I am correct, and if so, what it means.
Katelyn B r o o k s
If you’ve ever heard the Samba played well you have heard this all musically. Samba is difficult to describe in words. See Black Orpheus, which is the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice played against the background of Carnival in Rio de Janeiro. Much of it is filmed in the favelas where the people are dirt-poor but happy and on the streets of Rio. Everywhere the camera goes there is this incessant contagious Samba in the foreground and the background. During quieter intimate scenes they play the most beautiful compositions by Luis Bonfa and Antonio Carlos Jobim. What I started to say is that there is a philosophy to Samba. It’s composed of 3 lively beats and a pause which gives it a jumpy, Latin, happy dance-able rhythm. When you hear it your body just begins to move it is so irresistible. It might look like this: 1, 2, 3, --, 1, 2, 3, --, 1, 2, 3, --. . .The idea is that during the 3 lively beats you celebrate the joy and happiness in the world. But during the pause, which comes where you would expect the 4th beat there is a silence and that is when you honor the sorrows of the world.
Kent T o l l e y
You’re welcome Clarissa. I think I look to astrologers and psychologists for reasons but I look to the poets and artists for inspiration. I’ve always admired genius. Maybe it’s because they go the distance we all wish we could go but we don't have the courage or the desperate need. Someone said: “You should get down on your knees every day and thank God you are not a genius.” Though Hemingway is reputed to be a teller of truth, I hope he is wrong in this instance because I long for a world where not only the children especially are happy but art abounds. I guess that would be heaven. But then I remember there is something about the tragic-comic human condition that is poignant and beautiful, heart-breaking and ecstatic which feeds the passionate soul.
Kent T o l l e y
Kent, Just wanted to thank you for the original of the Rilke poem 'Der Schauende' and the interpretation of his natal chart, which I found fascinating although, not being an astrologer, a lot of it did go over my head. Also thank you for posting Sharon Olds's poem and a short background of what made her what she is. I found her poem 'Late Speech with my Brother' intensely moving and desperately sad. All these postings about unhappy and abused childhoods makes me think of Hemingway stating that to be a good writer you have to have had an unhappy childhood (words to that effect, don't know the exact quote). I don't thinkthat is quite enough but it certainly applies both to Rilke and to Sharon Olds, who I did not know. Thank you for the introduction, Kent. Thanks for that. Clarissa
Clarissa
When I drew in both Nodes to Sharon Olds' chart a Grand Cross shows in the chart whose four corners are Chiron-North Node, Sun-Venus, Uranus, South Node. She has Sun-Venus AND Uranus “at the bends.”
Kent T o l l e y
your site lists my pluto in the 8th house, when other charts show it in the 7th house. That's a huge difference. What gives?
Kara T h u r m a n [ _arak/kara_thurman ät yahoo/com ]
Sharon Olds solar chart shows a stellium (Sun, Ven, Merc, Mars) in Pluto ruled Scorpio with Sun conjunct Venus (1 degree) opposed to Uranus. Chiron is point focus in a T-Cross, square to both ends of the opposition. Interestingly she has Chiron conjunct the North Node within 1 degree as a pointing finger showing the way to Chiron’s path. Having difficult aspects to your North Node might mean that your most useful lessons and productive opportunities come disguised as obstacles, difficulties, or problems. She also has Pluto square Mars in Scorpio.
Kent T o l l e y
There is a contemporary American poet, Sharon Olds, who has found a way somehow to survive extreme childhood abuse at the hands of both parents. I have no idea what her chart looks like. I do know she can break your heart in just a few lines of deep personal truth and beauty. She often writes poems to her younger brother. In one (“Saturn”) she describes the way their father devoured his children and she does not withhold her hatred and disgust. I don’t know how she survived but miraculously she found a way and because she is so articulate about it she can be a guide for others with similar childhoods. This is one of those poems she wrote her brother from “The Living and the Dead..”
LATE SPEECH WITH MY BROTHER
I can see you now so vividly,
Kent T o l l e y
Kent - my impression is that moon and jupiter are indeed some keys. Since the violence in childhood where the flow of my left side was completely blocked (because of those beatings or because I couldn't take what was on on emotional side in my family?). The quest I found myself on was (and still is) to reintegrate the emotional energies (blocked heart chakra, often missing confidence) and to get into closer contact to my inner child. Since I have that 'lack of confidence' I always tried to come up with better solutions to 'problems'. And I am focused on solutions.
Reagarding the emotional side I must have a basic confidence from the time
from birth to about 3/4 years (my grandmother was very fond of me and I guess
there was a deep emotional bond) when my parents moved to another town (job)
and I stayed with my grandma for several weeks. Then I was taken to the new
home and my grandma did not come with us. At about 1 1/2 there were two weeks
in hospital (closed ward) because of a life threatening digestion problem. I
guess violence did start short before. This was also the time when my mother
was pregnant with my brother. Later as a child I really couldn't stand the
warm emotional charisma of my grandma any more. And I escaped at around 8 or
9 from the situation reading books all over the time, mostly adventure and
science fiction later more technical. I wanted to become astronaut, maybe to
follow the heros of my childhood (interestingly most of these literature
heros were lonely and didn't know where they belonged). Oh and I think I
survived because there always was a deep love from within.
JG
To Kent: thank you for having a look at my chart. and you are right! i do want success, but i always like to take the hard road. i do wish i had a little air in my chart. both my parents are air signs, by the way. i can feel not having that air enegry. everyone around me seems to be air or fire, but mostly air. so i guess the people around me make up the difference and the lack of air in my chart!
Kenneth N a d a r
Kenneth Nadar - Preponderance of planets in Water (5) with complementary support from 4 planets in Earth and Capricorn rising. You have an Air void with Mercury and Uranus, two of the primary Air planets being the only planets in the next least populated element - Fire. I think there is a correlation between the element balances and the Jungian types although I don’t think it’s quite so straight forward as counting up the score in each element. Capricorn rising in your chart with Saturn conjunct the MC would seem to be a strong grounding in Earth. And with Moon, Ascendant, Jupiter, Chiron and Neptune in Earth that would seem to be a strength of yours. Your Sun, Venus, Mars, Saturn, Pluto and MC being in Water. I would think you are a FEELING type and I would expect you to have strong and accurate instincts which you would not mentally minimized or dismiss since you do not give much credence to the Thinking function. Lack of Air does not mean lack of intelligence. It means you don’t approach and process the world through your Thinking function. With an Air void you might have difficulty keeping your objectivity. With Water-Earth predominating in your chart I would guess you are SF, Sensation Feeling type. Air would be the likely inferior function. Recommendation “Jung’s Typology”, Spring Publications -1971, consists of two long lectures. One by Marie-Louise van Franz on The Inferior Function and the other by James Hillman on The Feeling Function. It’s right up your alley. You were born precisely at the full Moon. The aspect is partile and compelling. The Moon shows how you instinctively act and respond in any situation. The Sun has to do with self-determination, will, purpose and the capacity to choose to act in a certain way rather than just respond in the instinctive lunar manner. Life gets complicated when the will and self-determination are in direct opposition to your instinctual inclination. To further complicate things you have Neptune Point Focus, square to both ends forming a T-Cross. Saturn is at the Midheaven and the theme of responsibility is up for you, emphasized by your Capricorn Ascendant. Melanie Reinhart says this can mean taking on, almost attracting burdens, with a feeling that in order to prove your value and worth in the eyes of the world, you must take on burdens. You want to be seen (10th) dragging heavy loads and doing your bit being dutiful and responsible. You have a Mystic Rectangle (Moon, Mars, Sun Chiron with very tight orbs) in the already emphasized elements of Water and Earth. ME Jones does not discuss Mystic Rectangles but several other writers do. You have 2nd T-Cross with Venus Point Focus, square to both ends of a Mars Chiron opposition. This would indicate to me intense, passionate, difficult, conflict-laden relationship issues. Venus-Chiron indicates a wounding with respect to your self-worth but also the ability to see beauty where others can not. I would expect you to have empathy for the unfortunates of the world. You may consider yourself lacking in attractiveness which doesn’t necessarily have any basis in reality. Chiron Venus may feel that it is somehow disadvantaged in the area of beauty. Mars-Venus especially with Mars in Scorpio is sexy but nicely balanced between the assertive and the appreciative sides of your nature. Among many other indications you may have the ability to love someone and be angry at them at the same time. And you have a Yod, which may not be very compelling since it involves only outer planets and has no connection to the personal planets. The two T-Crosses may make it difficult for you to find your focus since both Point Focus planets want to drive in a sense. My strongest recommendation would be to spend the 50 on this site and get Liz Greene’s Psychological Horoscope. Don’t cheat yourself and get one of the lesser horoscopes. Get the best. You could easily spend 50 on non-essential items, a relaxing lunch for two or a nice shirt but you they are passing pleasures. “Know thyself” is credited to Socrates but he himself said it was actually the most important thing he learned at Delphi. It was the saying inscribed on the wall at the temple of Apollo. Honor your Self by this small investment in self-knowledge.
Kent T o l l e y
For Kent Tolly: i always thought i understood my chart, and with the free charts astrodienst offers i understand a little more. the interesting thing about my chart is how things seem to be 'up in the air' so to speak. it looks concrete from the outside, but nothing is set in stone. what do you think--
march 17, 1984
Kenneth N a d a r
JG- In your chart the quintiles may be a secondary consideration but I would think you have considerable artistry since 3 quintiles is more than usual. More importantly for me in your chart would be the overall Bucket configuration with it’s nearly exact rim opposition between Chiron and Uranus, the dominating T-Cross that forms the backbone of the bowl segment of your bucket, the Point Focus Sun-Mars conjunction. And the Moon with it’s triple distinction as the planet in High Focus, it’s elevation in the 10th house and it’s dignity in Cancer. Also of interest is a predominance of planets in Water and a Singleton Jupiter in Air. Liz Greene describes singletons as problematic being that we are not well-grounded in that element so that the singleton is at odds with majority of characters in the psyche. I would ask Liz if a singleton could be identified with Jung’s inferior function? It is the least conscious to us but, like the foolish younger brother in the Grimms tales who actually ends up finding the cure for his sick father when his stronger and more respected older brothers have failed, it is the more undeveloped aspect of ourselves that we may give no respect to but which actually holds the key to a successful outcome. The youngest brother always has a purity about him and he is not calculating as his more successful brothers may be. He is naive and a fool and if he meets an elf along the way who speaks to him he shows respect where his noble older brothers showed none. He wants nothing for himself and wishes only to save his father and unwittingly stumbles onto the solution to the problem. I think a correlation between astrological factors and the inferior function would be an interesting study.
Kent T o l l e y
Max - Yes, I’ve been familiar with both the Graves volumes for decades and I am aware of the transformation of myth over time. Before the patriarchal times with Zeus as the king and a pantheon of mostly male gods there was a more matriarchal religion and the stories of interest to those prior people were stories of the goddesses. Medusa was still beautiful and not yet the monster that she later became for Theseus. Graves writes about this prior time in a 3rd volume: The White Goddess and we continually unearth pieces of older stories at archeological sites. I think modern man is more like a Periclean Greek man than the Periclean Greeks were like the people of the prior matriarchal age. That must have been such a drastic change that the stories needed to be changed or they would have ceased to be interesting having lost their relevance to the listeners. I think changes since Pericles have been relatively minor compared to the differences between the matriarchal times and the subsequent patriarchal times. It may seem myopic to you but my understanding of the myths works pretty well for me. And so far I have not heard from you any aspects of your new proposed myth that resonates in any deep way with me. You have proposed a system in very theoretical terms which has much merit to it and with which I have no disagreement but the examples you provide have to be squeezed unnaturally into that system. Your examples from comic books and popular but inferior television shows have so little credibility and longevity that your entire argument loses weight with me. As I said before Star Wars and also The Matrix stories have an allegiance to the older myths just dressed in modern clothes. I am not anxious to find a modern myth until I thoroughly understand the old myth and have found it no longer represents my reality. I don’t want to diffuse the fine detail of the old myths with modern retellings that have forgotten the past. I would much rather learn at the knee of Sophocles or Euripides or Homer (whoever he was) than from a television writer or comic book artist who have commercial motives. The tellers of these modern stories may not understand the significance of the details from the ancient myths and so the little important details get lost along the way. If you have ever committed to memory a complicated story, like one from Grimms, that you planned to deliver to a group of people it is vital to preserve all the fine details. Those sometimes apparently insignificant details are the entrances into the world of the myth for the listeners and if you forget to point one out someone will not find their rightful access and you will have failed as a story-teller. It is through those details that the members of your audience access their personal story and it’s intersection with the myth so the life of the individual finds its common ground with eternal truths. I think that is the greater purpose of story-telling and that is what makes some stories great. It is not accidental that James Joyce is writing about Ulysses or Finnegan or Stephen Dedalus or that Rilke is writing Sonnets to Orpheus and poems about Hermes guiding Orpheus below to retrieve Eurydice. They go there because there is juice there and meaningful correlation to the human condition. And they go there because the stories are ancient, even forgotten consciously for many of us having resided secretly in the collective unconscious. To hear those stories awakens the old familiar memory in us and connects us to what is eternal.
Finally about 2003 UB313 being named Xena you may get your wish. Now that the IAU has defined it as a dwarf-planet instead of a planet, the Michael Brown has more say about it’s name than he would have otherwise. If the writers of Smallville and Xena represent a deep psychic reality for you and teach you important things about your self and your journey and you have no need to continue learning from the ancient myths then that is appropriate for you.
Kent T o l l e y
Kent - interesting thing that animation feature you mentioned. But what I am looking for is a program that can find the constellations from some details and show me the intervalls of reoccurences. And I need the correct distances for my new model which is aimed to be applicable for birth places anywhere in the solar system, not necessarily on a planet. Actually this requires some rewriting of astrology meanings because Earth HAS to be included in this new model (and to my opinion it is missing in the existing one). I did also point out the Quintiles because I feel they are important and are hardly mentioned or even downgraded to some sort of character qualities only. In my birth horoscope there are 3 quintiles (nearly exact, 30') uranus quintile neptune, mercury quintile jupiter, mercury quintile pluto and an exact saturn semi-quintile chiron. And I always had the impression that looking only on those squares, sextiles, trines, quincunx a.s.o. leaves something important out about my mental capabilities. The orbs used for taking aspects as valid are mostly pretty much too wide, too. There isn't really an exact approach today but only some kind of guessing in use. I have developed an explanation model for exact orb determination (but it has to be verified and since I am self-learner and never worked as an astrologer I have got far far from as many charts as you have). But again I am getting a bit too enthusiastic about this all. Is there anyone out there who might be interested after all? I have to make a living.
JG
Hi Kent, have you ever read Robert Graves's volumes The Greek Myths? My apologies if that is somewhat of a patronizing question as I am sure you have. Upon reading these works over two decades ago, I realized the intimacy between mythology, civilization and psychology. Relevant to our discussion, Graves exposes the evolution of mythology inspired and refined by the tendencies of civilization over hundreds of years. New deities are born and others fade out as civilization moves forward. New attributes are layered upon existing deities at civilization dictates these needs. So, perhaps mythology evolves somewhat in the way you describe as a game of telephone, but it does so with a type of Darwinian natural selection. Perhaps it is even augmented with some deliberate intent by those acutely perceptive culturalists who see the need to define, expose and guide important emerging elements of our civilization. I believe that perhaps our new American symbolism can co-exist with the old. In my earlier posts, I wasn't suggesting Superman supplant Heracles. And actually, I'm compelled to point out the somewhat myopic view you take of Superman as merely a 4 color print in a comic book with a bubble over his head. Certainly the evolution of the Superman myth is a case in point of a modern Graves-style myth mirroring, augmenting and transforming as it germinates to express tendencies in our modern society. Have you seen the American TV show Smallville? This is hundreds of hours of writing and story telling devoted to the character development of Superman as a young man. However entertainment driven this material might be, it is ripe with cultural trends which, through existential metaphor express the human condition unique to today- our moment in time (the intent of science fiction in general I believe). Lastly, in reference to those greats such as Joseph Campbell- do you realize that he, among others, are playing the game of telephone you describe? Ancient mythology is discovered from the few remaining texts and graphic imagery left to our interpretation. Luckily, there are a few brilliant people who can take these texts (get passed the phone receiver) and imagery to offer insights and perspectives of their meaning with tremendous depth. From a bird's eye perspective of a sociological archeologist, they can deliver nuance to mythology of the time (very useful to we astrologers). Could you imagine how distorted rather than finessed our current interpretations of these millennia old archetypes might be if this mythology was lost via (telephone-game) transmission over the last 3 millennia? Unquestionably, even over the last 100 years, modern astrology has catapulted archaic interpretation into a multilayered, multidimensional psychological science- it has not disintegrated by being passed from one ear to the next. My point is, mythology is cultivated, it is not stagnant. As Graves describes, it augments along with society. Modern archetypes are valid evolutions, just as 400B.C. mythology is valid augmentations of 2500B.C. archetypes. Although there are immutable archetypes that will always describe the human condition, even the ancient Greeks understood that as their civilization evolved, their mythology had to keep up and I believe ours does with the new characters we see all around us. Perhaps it will just take a few centuries for legitimate modern day mythology to rise above the irrelevant. I for one, however would love to use it immediately in my astrological work and wish that the name Xena had stuck for UB313o.
Max B l a c k
JG - I use the most current version of Solar Fire Deluxe. I also have about 2200 charts in my database that I can search, compare, and study. I wish I had 10 times that and regularity add charts. One of SF’s features is the ability to animate a chart. You can watch a chart turn forwards or backwards by minutes, hours, months or years. When you said you had Pluto in 12th square Sun-Mars in Sagittarius and Transpluto semi-sextile I thought of the chart of JFK Jr. But his Mars is not conjunct Sun having been born a year prior to you. With SF I animated his chart until Mars came conjunct the Sun in Sagittarius. It happens to be exactly one year later and gave me a rough approximation of your chart.
Kent T o l l e y
Rilke’s chart has a remarkable amount of structure. He has a Grand Square, a Fanhandle, a Grand Trine, and a Kite. All those configurations are connected and related by major aspects. All the characters in Rilke's psyche, represented by the planets, are all related and conversant in significant ways. And the whole chart, a finely architected structure, is an indication of the advanced development of his psyche. The chart calculated at Prague for 00:15 AM puts Libra on the Ascendant and Venus precisely on the IC. Using the chart types of Marc Edmond Jones, Rilke has a perfect Bucket chart. All but one planet are in a semi-circle within an opposition of Pluto and Jupiter which forms the rim of the bucket. Uranus stands alone opposed to the rest of the chart and so becomes the Handle of the Bucket. Uranus forms a Core opposition to a lunar stellium in Aquarius. Note restatement of the Uranian themes. Uranus is the Handle to his Bucket chart, the planet brought to focus in his Fanhandle configuration (Uranus opp Moon, Mars, Saturn stellium), a corner of his Grand Square and also one of the corners of his Grand Trine (Ur, Chiron, Venus). Uranus throws major aspects to every planet in his chart except Neptune. He is all Fire and Air. Sun, Ven, Ura, Chiron in FIRE. Moon, Mars, Sat, Asc in AIR. He has only Neptune and Pluto in Earth an indication that the practicalities of life are of little concern to him. He lives much of his life in poverty and sees darkness in material. And only Merc and Jupiter in WATER indicating that he does not have very conscious access to his emotions. His emotions are not weakened but they may be troublesome to him and somewhat unconscious. In Jung’s types, Rilke would be NT, an intuitive (fire) thinker (air). If you are a thinking type, the feeling function is undeveloped. If you are an intuitive type, the sensation function is undeveloped. The emphasis on Uranus supports his intellectual, thinking function. He must have received flashes inspiration and divine vision from his unconscious with Uranus so emphasized. Uranus’ opposition to Moon, Mars, Saturn stellium looks like some emotional difficulty and places considerable stress on the Moon. Rilke’s relationship to his mother is complex. As a small child, Rilke was dressed as a girl and named Maria by his mother who wanted a girl, not a boy. He would knock at her door and she would ask “Who is it?” When he replied it is Rainer she would not allow him access. He had to say it was Maria before he would be allowed in. He made a point to keep that name when he became an adult. When Freud really wanted to psychoanalyze Rilke, thinking he would be a fascinating study, the great poet refused, saying if you rid me of my demons you will also rid me of my angels. I would love to hear Liz Greene spend an evening discussing Rilke’s chart. Previously we discussed Orpheus, an Apollonian figure, a musician and poet with an undying love for Eurydice who gains access to the underworld and Hades through the loveliness of his music. They say that even the animals would stop and listen when Orpheus played. The myth says something about accessing the Plutonian underworld and the deep unconscious through art, poetry and music which Rilke was able to do. Three titles from his first book: A Book for the Hours of Prayer (Das Stundenbuch) are ‘I love the dark hours’, and ‘You darkness that I come from’, and ‘I have faith in nights.’ One of his most beautiful books is ‘Sonnets to Orpheus.’ It is as if Rilke is a modern-day Orpheus. He identifies with him.
Kent T o l l e y
Hi everyone, Thanks for the info and thoughts about Pluto. I was thinking what happens when your chart ruler is deleted?...but obviously, it's just a human classification thing. Anyway, I started thinking about Pluto. In Astrology, we consider Pluto very powerful. I think about it as a an indicator of the populace as a whole at the time, the generation of people at a given time, global issues, etc. I was thinking about Pluto being powerful and also small, far away, and part of a belt of small objects. When you scatter material around a point, the further out scatter becomes smaller dots but also concentrated (like a belt of small dots). I like to think about Pluto's power is Astrology as representative of a denser belt on the outside of the solar system that exerts great force on the center. Powerful small objects that form a populace of energy. Just some thoughts and 2 cents. Best, Thilde Weems
Mathilde W e e m s [ dliht/thildeweems át yahoo/com ]
I don't know how to type the umlaut but aside from that this is Rilke's poem in German.
DER SCHAUENDE
Ich sehe den Bäumen die Stürme an,
Da geht der Sturm, ein Umgestalter
Wie ist das klein, womit wir ringen,
Was wir besiegen, ist das Kleine,
Wen dieser Engel überwand,
Kent T o l l e y
The phrase that hit my attention the most in the poem sent in by Kent Tolley was: by being defeated decisively. D e c i s i v e ly. We have to make the decision to go on. Our inventors come to mind - Thomas Edison - where would we be without all his inventions - he was deaf - his teachers thru him out of school suggesting he was hopeless. Thanks to his mother who had confidence in him he went on to invent so much. Electricity - it was always there, the telephone, the gramaphone, he got together with Ford who invented the automobile and wanted every family to have one, he also associated with Firestone and grew rubber trees in his yard in Florida to see if they could process their own rubber and make tires instead of using Firestone's as he came from England, etc. etc. Where would we be without these great men. The same with the airplane - what I have done a lot instead of going to music or/and poetry (which for me was too painful), being Plutonian I read a lot of biographies - the psychology of life - what makes us tick. Also astrology - that became my obsession. Again my planets favour this. I could go on but I'll let others vent their good times or frustrations. Asta la Vista - Au revoir.
Edna B r i s s o n
To Oriah - With regard to your reaction to This is primary school geometry, and that maybe it was you who felt yourself to be dimwitted, I know EXACTLY what you mean! Been there...
Pamela Y o u n g
Thanks Alois, Rilke had that fantastic trine Neptune - Venus for one, and Uranus trine Venus as well as a few other 'good' aspects. But what a tortured existence he must have had with all those oppositions, all those squares.
Clarissa
I was Born in Mackenzie B.C. Canada but the birth place field fail's to locate my town of birth, and it is interfering with my actual birth chart result's. please help me !
Jared M i l l e r Alois adds; just use a nearby town, please. Up to 10 miles distance should not be a concern, even with a birth time precise to the minite. Wow..i have been waiting on bended knee to hear what is in the stars for me as all the active roughshod ride or some other dismill planetary aspects have finally been coming to a head and I have been waiting dilegently to hear some positive feedback and prospects but it just isn't happening even when there is a somewhat positive title given .... for that i have decided to withdraw my information and leave my future to chance as it seems any information i have been able to gleen from astro.com is wrought with hardship predictions and it feels that once i get a glimmer of hope it is shot down in the next paragraph or column ... i feel a sense of hopelessness at all of this ...it feels like reading the front page of a newspaper and no matter how much you want to believe good news will be delivered it will not happen because that is not what newspapers are there to sell .. i am distraught at all the negativity issued in these forcasts ...a taurean who is tired of all the bad press!!!
D H
PS to that. My curiosity being insatiable, I had a look at Rilke's chart on Astrodienst by typing in date of birth: Dec. 4, 1875 and place of birth: Prague. Obviously didn't have time of birth so typed in 12:00. I have rarely seen so many oppositions and so many squares. Fascinating - but confirms to me yet again that great art is born of great pain.
Clarissa Alois adds: The VIP birthday feature gives: 00:15 (15 minutes after midnight). Kent, I tried to find the Rilke in German so as to read it in the original. Translated the title as either 'Der Beobachter' or 'Der Zuschauer' but neither came up as a Rilke poem title. If you have it, could you please let me know? Just wondered if you know what Rilke's natal chart was like? The fact that he also wrote so much poetry in French is also somewhat unusual, even if there are many writers who have written in two or more languages (Beckett, Nabokov etc) I wonder if there is anything in a natal chart that indicates this talent. My uninformed guess: it must be something to do with Mercury and position and aspects.
Clarissa H e n r y
Hohoho Okay yeah, Sometimes I admit I am over sensitive. And I guess I was also feeling a little like maybe I should have been able know the answer on my own. I particularly am sensitive to This is primary school geometry. They consider them obvious. So maybe it wasn't alois deliberately making me out to seem dimwitted but how I actually saw myself. I don't know if it was a case of that's so simple, its too simple so I didn't think it could be that and thought instead it must be something more complicated that due to my level of self taught astrological knowledge I didn't know how to work it out. Although yeah I wasn't really aware of complimentary angle or aspects or the context of complimentary or what they were to each other.
Oriah H o s h i k o
JG - From what you say it is not just Pluto in the 12th square your Sun-Mars conjunction in Sagittarius. Uranus is square the Solar conjunction from the 12th house as well. If you were born Nov 25th or 26th, 1961 at about 1:30 in the morning, then you also have Chiron opposed the 12th house conjunction and the whole complex (Uranus, Pluto, Sun, Mars, Chiron) from a T-Cross with Sun-Mars at the point focus.
Kent T o l l e y
Dear Edna, I guess I understand what you want to say by 'When things happen that I do not like I feel the effects of my plutonian planet in Cancer, bite the bullet and go on'. For me it's Pluto in 12th together with Uranus at beginning of 12th house (virgo) square mars resp. sun in 3rd (sagittarius), moon in 10th (cancer). I would describe this as what sometimes can be seen in old cowboy films: Afterwards that pragmatic hero turns his horse and rides away into the sunset... maybe with mercury in scorpio there is no real need for talking.
JG
Clarissa asked below - To what extent are we masters of our fate? It is a question for the ages. Many masters must have taken a stab at this question but, for me, none has said it as well as Rilke.
THE MAN WATCHING
I can tell by the way the trees beat, after
The storm, the shifter of shapes, drives on
What we choose to fight is so tiny!
When we win it’s with small things,
Whoever was beaten by this Angel
Kent T o l l e y
Edna, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said Pluto was the planet of death and regeneration, regeneration being the operative word. The only way to go forward. After the initial shock and the 'death', the rebirth must follow. As my life to date has been completely destroyed, I have decided to leave it where it is - in the past - and move on to today and tomorrow. Unfortunately, unlike you, I never had the magnificent support you describe. I wonder what sort of 4th house (family, home, I believe) you have to have acquired such strength and support.
Clarissa
In my quest to defend Pluto I missed thanking Kent Tolley and all others who write in with their knowledge. Kent - you are one of a kind!!!! When are you writing your book on Astrology???
Edna B r i s s o n
Everyday I can't wait to read the feedbacks as this site is more insightful than ever. All this fuss over Pluto - the planet of death and regeneration. According to astrologers I've visited I am Plutonian. So what happens now. My Pluto is also in the 12th house making a grand trine to my fourth and 8th. 5 deg. Leo risiing - sun Sat. in the 8th. moon mars in the l2th - both conjunct. Jupiter in the 4th. I grew up in a home with 15 men at all times with 3 women something like Dallas. Big home - lots of people. Of course lots of coming and going but always someone there to console me when things went wrong. OK pluto plays a big role and it is not always pleasant when it affects most or all of your planets but it's also a strong competing planet and gives you that boost when things get a little tough. It governs the Mafia so they say so it gives you an idea of its strength. My grand trine is in water so sometimes you become very emotional and don't want to deal with everything that is happening but strangely enough when you wake up the next day and that pluto energy kicks in and off you go. I'm sure it will still have a big influence in our lives as far as giving us some strength. Whenever I consulted an astrologer I was told that we don't always know how to interpret Pluto. What it's done for me is that I was never happy just sitting around to have things happen - I made them happen maybe sometimes in a risky way but I survived. I realize that most people writing in are sometimes new to astrology but if we understand that life is an ever learning experience and that every new day offers some hope. When things happen that I do not like I feel the effects of my plutonian planet in Cancer, bite the bullet and go on.
Edna B r i s s o n
Clarissa: I really hadn't thought of pain as something that can be converted into art. The theme we may be dancing around is redemption - on my mind due to Greene's book on Neptune - as the personal relevance of Neptune, even if we feel it from the audience and not from the conductor's box. I am still wary of saying that pain is linked to art in any sense of art as pleasure, only in that Nietzche warns about Socratic reasoning that lacks any passion for living, art, etc. Maybe Pluto does have a personal dimension as well. I suppose I will have to look at the Astrology of Fate now, and then have you remind me later on about it.
Bill
No, I know you didn't Bill. I added that even if it is untrue. Montaigne peacefully writing his masterpiece in his 'ivory tower' comes to mind. On the other hand, a large proportion of genius seems to stem from dire circumstances, events or a touch of madness - the mad genius cliché. Kafka, Nietzsche, Robert Schumann, even Chopin with his huge health problems. Or even the survivors of WW II, a Paul Celan, a Primo Levi, an Imre Kertesz. Guess no one has it all - the exceptional gift comes at a cost. Trouble is most people don't have the gift to convert the pain into art and have no outlet, no compensation.
Clarissa
converting extreme pain into great art - I did not state this. I agree with you though about the rest of your statement.
Bill
Kent - thank you very much for your kind words! I will take a look into the book you proposed and the video (even though I am not a TV looker at all). Today I think I survived childhood because of my sun sextile jupiter. And my escape route was reading books. But the capricorn saturn in exact mirror point to my sun seemed to have caused a lot of problems, too. And finally neptune in 2nd house had the square neptune transit lately. I am longing for some smooth times now... But I am glad that I never have beaten my own children.
I read from you regarding JFK jr. 'Pluto is conjunct Ascendant from the 12th,
an indication of a dark ancestral inheritance' (Aug.30). By the way, I think the strong emotional block of my father was caused by second world war when he, as a small boy (born 1937), was in the middle of the bombs raining on Hamburg, hurrying for shelter in bunker with his lame step father and mother and siblings. He always refused to buy a house.
JG
A question of converting extreme pain into great art - such as Beethoven not being able to hear the music he composed other than his head. The worst fate that can befall a composer in my book. Unfortunately, Pluto, Neptune, Venus alone do not give the talent to convert that great pain into great art. Plumbing Plutonian depths and coming up with masterpieces is not given to most mere common mortals. Unfortunately.
Clarissa
It seems to me one key to a personal sense of Neptune and Pluto is that the greater the art, the more powerful the effect for social change, the more these are irrelevant to a person. Personal terms are like the applause Beethoven did not hear. It's a fair trade for suffering, too, becomes irrelevant.
Bill
Goethe is dealt Pluto rising in Scorpio square Sun precisely on the MC and Saturn in Scorpio on the Ascendant as well. He spent his life writing Faust, a dialog with the very Plutonian Mephistopheles. Rainer Maria Rilke is another great poet with a powerful Pluto. Both are survivors. It is Goethe who says - What does not kill me makes me stronger. The great poets do not merely give us beautiful poetry. They teach us how to live.
Kent T o l l e y
Pamela, Thanks. I actually ordered The Transits of Time online after you recommended it. No, nothing there either to hint at the month of August I have just managed to survive. The future looks pretty bleak though. Not going to be an easy ride but I doubt if it can be worse than the last few months. Again, the question begs an answer, to what extent are we masters of our fate? Goethe wrote about his natal chart that he had been dealt a hand of cards and it was up to him to play the best game with it (words to that effect). But thanks for the recommendation, Pamela!
Clarissa
JG - Pluto square a Sun-Mars conjunction must be very hard. Pluto-Sun alone makes for a threatening father. The addition of Mars to that complex makes it more difficult by an order of magnitude. My heart goes out to you. I was born with sort of a silver spoon in my mouth and I have all trines, sextiles and quintiles to my Sun My father was intelligent, kind, and just. It was easy for me to love him. I cannot imagine what life would be like for me if I did have all that he taught me or if I could not always feel good thinking about him. I don’t think violation or violence upon a child by a parent has it’s source in not honoring the god. As children we are pretty much at the mercy of our parents. You are not guilty of enabling your father’s cruelty. There is a wonderful novel by Pat Conroy that you must read. THE PRINCE OF TIDES. Barbra Streisand made a movie of it with Nick Nolte as the only survivor of an abusive household. Conroy has the same Sun Pluto square you have with his Sun in Scorpio (a double whammy). In addition he has an exact Mar-Saturn conjunction also square his Sun. Conroy deals with the same issues you describe. The novel has more about the hero's older brother but the movie is brilliant and an act of love by Streisand. Conroy is one of the best contemporary writers in America. Prince of Tides is heart-breakingly beautiful. Kent
Kent T o l l e y
Hi Clarissa - Thanks for the info on your chart. You mentioned that nothing written in the Daily Forecast, or Forecast, or Transits of the Year report gave any indication that the events you've experienced recently would happen. If possible, you might want to order Liz Greene's yearly horoscope report, called The Meaning of the Time. That report does a great job of giving a truly personalized reading of the events in a one-year period for a particular chart. I really recommend it, you may well find it answers your questions about why things happened when they did, in detail.
Pamela Y o u n g
To Pamela Young, Just read your reply to my query on 'free will'. No, I do not live in the town where I was born. When I changed the geographical location for the solar horoscope on Astrodienst, I found the planets had moved from the 9th house to the 8th. I thought the last month's catastrophic events were due to Pluto who is one of the most potent planets in my birth chart (1st house conjunction with the Moon, trigons to the Sun, Mercury, Venus and the MC) but it might well have been the Mars Uranus opposition. Anyway, it was hell but I did survive a life-threatening situation with the loss of everything that was close to my heart (all my photos, my whole life, that of my parents, that of my children, and all my books, of which there were many and which were extremely important to me). The overall destruction made me think it must be Plutonian. The suddenness would be due to Mars/Uranus.
Clarissa
I must say I agree with Pamela Young. I too think you were oversensitive and overreacted, Oriah Hoshiko. Alois's answer was informative, nothng else.
Clarissa Alois adds: Thanks for the support; I would rather let the matter rest. I often am 'condescending' in my replies, this is no secret. I have a lot of things on my shoulders, I think fast and my patience with others is often quite limited. It shows through the pixels and bytes, I suppose. Some people can sense it even from 10'000 km away. To Clarissa - Terribly sorry to hear about the things you've been through lately. It could be Pluto, but there may also be Mars and/or Uranus involvement. And don't forget that progressions, solar arcs, and midpoints have to be taken into account, not just transits. Are you living in your birth place, or close to it? Because if by chance you're now living far from where you were born, that could also be a factor courtesy of astrocartography. Any chance you'd consider sharing your birth data? I'm particularly interested, because lately I've been brooding a lot about fate, too. Personally I've come to the conclusion that it's all fate, we have no control at all over what happens to us. People who think otherwise are just living in dreamland. Anyway, sorry to hear about your problems, and I hope things get better for you.
Pamela Y o u n g
To Oriah Hoshiko - I reread your original e-mail and Alois' reply to it, and I think you're being overly sensitive. I don't think anyone reading Alois' reply to your question would get the impression that he was being condescending, or trying to make you look stupid. He just gave a very complete answer to your question, so that any and all beginners out there who might be reading it could have as much help as possible. You did astrology students out there a favour by asking your question, and Alois did them a big favour in providing a very comprehensive reply.
Pamela Y o u n g
thank you alois for the complementary aspects! Big help. However I did not appreciate your extra comments that were meant to be condescending and make me look stupid. I was aware and did research on north/south nodes. That's not what I was asking, but had not come across complimentary aspects or what they were to eachother so shoot me for not knowing and asking for help. I am learning as I mentioned and I don't think you need to belittle people because they might not know something but are willing to find out
Oriah H o s h i k o Alois adds: I am sorry if you feel you were made looking stupid. There was no such intention. I only wanted to explain it really clearly for every reader, not just for you. In most replies, I try to speak to the general readership and not just to the person asking a question. Thank you Liz for my Psychological Horoscope, I only recieved it yesterday and have already read it. I have always believed in Astrology but this has convinced me that it's true. There is so much more to us than our Sun sign ...we are all unique. I was particularly amazed at the mention of my parents, the description of them was astoundingly accurate! This report is going to help me in my life...especially when dealing with others. It's all there in black and white and I'm so glad that I ordered it.
Andrea R a y n e r
I have always considered the Shakesperean quote from 'Julius Caesar' a particularly wise one:
The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars
I now no longer believe this. Having just survived two - three weeks of
life-threatening events, and I am not prone to exaggeration, with the
complete destruction of my home by a manic depressive (all my books, all my
photos burnt, furniture broken n pieces etc.,) I realise that we are also
tributary to external factors over which we have no control.
Clarissa [ iralc/clarissa/henry êt gmail/com ]
Kent - you said when Pluto is not 'honoured' it could cause some very savagely violent, dark others. Actually me and my brother both had a childhood with an unpredictable father who excerted his strong-arm most of the time in unjust manner - pure hate. On the other hand he was not reachable emotional at all. That seems pretty much what you describe as Pluto/Hades. Today if someone tries to get the better of me or tries to put me under I really stand against this instead of better giving way. But this is doing no good. I am perfectly aware of what has happened in childhood and I still do not find a cognitive explanation other than putting it another level back in ancestry to explain the emotional block of my father. But it remains that I have some problems with authority figures who do not live by themselves what they preach others should do or who are unjust rulers/patriachs. Music was my escape in childhood, but pitty only for listening not for playing myself. And interestingly these things really can be seen in the horoscope (mars square pluto, pluto in 12th, sun in sagittarius conjunct mars in 3rd, pluto semisextile transpluto).
JG
Again, if anyone is interested in helping me, I was reading the information on site regarding Lesson 5, the outer planets and was disappointed to find that Aspects to Pluto stopped at Mars. I really would like to read more on the aspects of the outer planets to Pluto. Reason being, is that in my horoscope I have Pluto in the 7th House (Leo) 10 deg from my descendant (in Leo), trine Venus in the 3rd house ( Aries) at 19 deg and square Jupiter in the 4th house (Taurus) at 15 deg. As pluto is so close to my descendant and square Jupiter, can someone help me get a better understand on how to interpret this combination with Pluto? Thank you.
Irean Z u d u n i s [ aeriz/zirean êt tadaust/org/au ] Alois adds: I am afraid our online edition corresponds to the published book content by Claire Martin. But there are many more astroloyg books on Pluto out there. Why don't you try Amazon or your favourite esoteric bookshop? I'm getting into astrology and having a go at doing a reading for someone else. I had my own done for me years ago and it has both north and south node aspects which by the way were not identical. In any case I was trying to find out what my friend's south node aspects are and can't seem to calculate them. I have only so far come across the true node aspects which as I understand is the north node. Do you offer south node aspects on here or maybe direct me somewhere I could calculate this information for free?
Oriah H o s h i k o [ hairo/oriah_hoshiko àt hotmail/com ] Alois adds: The South Node is by definition 180 degrees opposite the North Node. If a planet has an aspect to the North Node, it means that it has - within orb - an angle of 0°, 30°, 60°, 90°, 120°, 150°, 180° to it. It is obvious that in that case the planet forms at the same time the 'complimentary angle' to the South Node. This means the angle which in combination gives the sum of 180°. This is primary school geometry.
Complimentary aspects (angles) are therefore: Because the aspects to the South Node are complimentary to those to the North Node, very few astrologers bother to list them separately. They consider them obvious. The same, by the way happens with the opposite pair Ascendant - Descendant, and with the pair Medium Coeli - Imum Coeli. Each opposition to the Ascendant is also a Conjunction to the Descendant, each sextile to the MC is also a trine to the IC, and so on. |
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