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Astro-Databank: Howard Dean (Read 404 times)
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Astro-Databank: Howard Dean
« on: 20.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
Howard Dean, born 17 November 1948 at 7:21 PM in New York NY
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

We finally have independent confirmation of Howard Dean's birth time. He hardly needs any introduction. Let's look at his chart.
  • What brings out his off-the-cuff unstudied remarks that are both the making and unmaking of Howard Dean?
  • Howard Dean's policies are sometimes criticized as reactive and improvised. Some see this as the sign of an open mind, but the press seems to make sport of painting changed opinions as a sign of lack of character or deep understanding. Dean's opinions come more from confrontation with facts, than from abstract principles. This makes him quite a polar opposite from George W Bush who when solving problems first consults his convictions, then the facts of the case. This is often portrayed as the sign of a strong moral foundation. I won't argue which is a better decision making style - both are necessary. Where can you find the reactive mutable style of decision making in Dean's chart?
  • Despite conventional wisdom that a few personalized anecdotes are essential tools for being elected, Howard Dean remains masked. I'll bet you can guess what sign and house you'll find his cryptic Sun and hidden Moon. "The fact that I'm the least autobiographical is very much connected with the fact that I'm the most passionate. Experiences that I don't have access to consciously are what drive me--personal experiences that I can't tell you about because I haven't processed them." Find the connection between his passion and the unprocessed unconscious in his chart.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #1 - on: 20.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Brent
 
He has a GrandTrine that is very indicative of his political approach. With Jupiter in Capricorn (a structured philosophy) trine Saturn in Virgo (strict with work and with subordinates) Both are trine his North Node in Taurus in the 10th house (life's goals are materialistic/power in his career). This is someone who uses the struggle of opposition (Saturn/Jupiter)(diplomacy/politics) to achieve his life goals. However, with Mars in Sagittarius opposition to Uranus, he has the tendency to rebel and fight hard against the existing establishment with a free flowing (Sag.)anger.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #2 - on: 20.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User alex nagel
 
This doesn't look like the horoscope of a US president. The 11th house, which rules the presidency, is too weak.  
Two-term presidents Clinton and Reagan both had their 1st lord in the 11th house (Dubya does not...).
Had Dean been born an hour or so later, he would have had a better chance. Then his 1st lord Moon would be full and exalted in the 11th house. As it is, this excellent Moon graces the 12th house. Great for meditation.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #3 - on: 20.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User alex nagel
 
PS - Comments below based on the Vedic system.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #4 - on: 20.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Estebon Duarte CMA
 
To find characteristics describing Dean himself and not his objective world, I have been taught to look to the Asc. (ruler by sign, and Ptolemaic aspects to it). In doing this we can see where the reactive, mutable motivation/impression comes from. The Asc. itself is in the highly reactive sign of Cancer, the Moon is somewhat debilitated by being in the 12th and square to Saturn, so emotional reaction from the Moon will be inhibited. Saturn sextiles the Asc. from the mutable/feminine sign of Virgo creating obstacles in communication and learning through fear and worry. Saturn is received somewhat by Mercury through sextile from Scorpio (Mercury trines the Asc. as well) where we find the reactive, troublesome Scorpion tounge and mind that underlies communication and decision making for Dean.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #5 - on: 20.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Joyce
 
I agree with person below; not a chart of a president. Ambassador, statesman, cabinet post, etc. Yes. Libra planets good for diplomacy/mediation. Gemini emphasis; the teacher, good communicator. Certainly, most things fail from relationships to International disputes due to poor communications. However, the plus here is transiting Jupiter at time of election in Libra trines his natal moon, ruler of ascendant and direct opposition to his career house. It will be in his Neptune, Venus placements in Libra. Transiting Saturn (though moving into Lewi's famous 'obscure period') will trine his fifth house Scorpio influence.Definitely some strengths. But, the healer emphasis as doctor, Mars/Jupiter in sixth, moon/uranus in 12th augers best for healing.(can he heal our nation?) Uranus in 12th; hidden genius ruler of 8th; with this influence and a Scorpio; great fundraiser, connection to the spiritual. Still, too many presidential hopefuls have lost with Saturn crossing ascendant. I hope the winner utilizes Dean in a super cabinet post. He deserves it. He's a loner and he needs a job where he travels around constantly, a diplomat and arbitrater, perfect.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #6 - on: 20.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User John
 
Howard Dean's off-the-cuff unstudied remarks are both his making and his unmaking. What brings out these remarks? I suppose that it would be the "Tell It Like It Is" aspect, Mercury Square Pluto.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #7 - on: 21.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Steve
 
1) Why he tells it like it is? Obviously his mercury square pluto.. mercury in scorpio would almost be enough, but even more so with the aspect obviously.
2) His Mars conjunct Jupiter (Sag/Cap) in the 6th house shows he wants to initiate large policies through work. However, poth of these oppose his Uranus in Gemini in the 12th. So he tries to make his large-minded policies original and creative. Sometimes he can truly come up with innovative policies. However, they can be superficially innovative (Gemini), SEEMINGLY come out of nowhere, and potentially be his undoing because people don't see this hidden genius. To them it seems like erratic stupidity perhaps. Also, I doubt Dean is without principle. Mercury square Pluto seems to put pressure to have integrity in decision making (Pluto in Leo has something to do with personal integrity). Bush has Mercury conjunct Pluto in Leo. I think that accounts for his convictions.
3) Unprocessed unconscious? His most intense experiences perhaps come from the 8th house which is ruled by Uranus. Uranus is in the 12th - unprocessed. The moon also rules an aspect of the unconscious and is also in the 12th. However, that wouldn't be super intense I wouldn't think. His Sun/Chiron conjunction in Scorpio also forms a quincunx to Uranus in the 12th. Mercury square Pluto could show a love/hate feeling towards confronting his unconscious. All of this makes him very private. The Sun/Chiron conjunctions hould not be overlooked. Scorpios are notoriously private.. and his Sun is in the Cancer decan. He is extra sensitive about being hurt and wounded.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #8 - on: 21.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Frances
 
I erected this chart putting in the Part of Fortune, which is at 24 Sagittarius, conjunct his Mars in Sagisttarius. One way to interpret that is to say he just likes doing (Mars) Sagittarian type things and will have luck being forthright at workplace, with work-related topics, unions, job creation, luck on employment. Also attending to detail seems indicated by that Mars in the 6th house. He likes to work and bring many people into his ideas of bettering routines to get things done. He's idealistic but practical at the same time. Maybe work is almost fun for him with Jupiter in the house and is his way to meet people. Jupiter is trine his Saturn, which is quite near his 3rd house of siblings, showing he knew how to be the elder brother without dominating over much. Aries rules his Mid-Heaven and Mars is conjunct his Part of Fortune in the 6th. This would be a working President, or whatever other job he gets, he will expand in it and has a dual nature of being in charge (Aries on 10th) and sharing the rather intense workload with Sag on the 6th and Jupiter and Mars in the house. He has to be interested in what he does and feel it is meaningful, which may help explain his uncertainty about where he was to fit in society. He had a father he was trying to please. I think he's easy to work with but makes final decisions as his responsibility. Working for the public indicated by Part of Fortune conjunct Mars which rules the 10th house.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #9 - on: 21.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User John
 
Hi Steve, I will agree with you that the Mars\Jupiter conjunction is a very powerful aspect. Nevertheless this conjunction is in Opposition to Uranus which may account for his explosive outburst at the end of the Iowa caucus. From the New York Daily News: "Howard Dean was not able to handle the adversity of the moment [falling from 1st place to 3rd place in the Iowa caucus] and overreacted. It was scary. He was punching the air, the veins in his neck came up, he literally became unglued. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/story/156934p-137837c.html
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #10 - on: 21.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User alex nagel
 
This public outburst is quite interesting. In Vedic astrology, Mars and Jupiter both sit in his 7th house (social skill, ability to influence the public, popularity).  
Apart from giving him a positive public image, Jupiter expands whatever it comes in contact with. In this case Mars. Mars is his 11th lord (presidency). Thus, to Dean the fight (Mars) for the presidency (11th house and lord) is entirely about winning public opinion (7th house). This is unfortunate, because he has much more to offer.
Dean strikes me as a man who has yet to find a balance between the extrovert nature of his strong 7th house, and the inner depth/potential that is suggested by the full and exalted (!) Moon in his 12th house. It is the Moon in his 12th house that makes him an idealist/dreamer, capable of thinking out of the box. But ... the 12th house is not of this world. It is therefore hard to hold on to in this world. In fact, his 7th house attachment may well be an obstacle for his truly exploring his excellent 12th house Moon.  
If he could approach the 7th house, while maintaining the vision and poise of the 12th house, he could be truly impressive.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #11 - on: 21.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Melvyn.
 
And don't forget John...MARS is in SAGI Smiley
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #12 - on: 21.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Melvyn
 
The great Jupiterian with no shortage of Mars: Enthusiasm, outgoing personality. Daring, adventurous. Ambitious, enjoys challenges in life. Attraction towards sports and outdoor activities. Likes action, and can be extremely industrious. Likes to do things in large measure. Possibly a workaholic combination. Entrepreneurial. A powerful combination for business. Mars and Jupiter are the two planets of leadership. Aspires to be in positions of responsibility, and has what it takes to reach them: self confidence, work capacity and drive. People with a strong Mars-Jupiter aspect can well have an 'army general' character which feels most alive when in situations of combat or challenge. Capacity to innovate, to go further, to take things beyond their present limits. Direct, straightforward personality. Possibly somehow impulsive. It is likely impulsiveness may be or have been a problem at one stage or another in the native's life. One of the keys, as far as this is concerned, is to be able to integrate Saturn's values to one's Jupiterian qualities.
Opposition Mars-Uranus Key words: volcanic power, unstoppable, revolutionary. The planet of fire meeting that of sudden outbursts - TNT combination with highly volatile potential. There is fire in excess. Mars-Uranus soul forces and characters: *Sheer power, the typhoon character:
I like his HONESTY...a refreshing change. And he has CANCER ASCENDANT...he does CARE about people.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #13 - on: 22.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill Lindsay
 
1. Off the cuff...He has 3rd house in Virgo---at the outset, he is not a very highly verbally expressive person, he tends to want to tailor-make his comments and rehearse what he's going to say, often because of how it makes him look(much like how we would try on clothes). His Mercury in Scorpio kind of reinforces this as he can easily see the effect his words have(or would have) on people. However, he's no slow-poke on the inside, as we see from his Gemini Moon, which rules his chart, in the 12th. He probably came from a home where the rule of law came through verbal means, high values were placed on smarts, and he was raised on ideas and criticism. I have no doubt that in some ways he second-guesses himself, does double-takes, and makes unconscious, off-handed remarks. His parents probably encouraged him to doubt himself, or develop certain nervous habits and peculiarities which encouraged mischief from his peers when he was young(making fun of him or heckling him). He needs to be careful about cutting corners, talking too much, thoughtless words, or on the flip side, taking himself too seriously. 2. Reactive...we have already mentioned two mutable influences...Virgo and the Gemini Moon...there is also an almost Sagittarius Sun, and Mars conjunct Jupiter...so there is strong emphasis in this chart regarding the facts of the past... 3. Unconscious passion...well, he does have Pisces on the 9th House, which is where we look back at our past in re of the things we have done....He has the ruler of this house, Neptune, in his 4th House....So, I'd say that he is pretty well secure in himself, he has few things holding him back, his business is his business...he just doesn't feel that he has to tell everything...especially with the third house in Virgo, which puts so much emphasis on processing...
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #14 - on: 22.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User CJ
 
Why does Karl Rove think he is a super loser? Walter Mondale and George McGovern also had Mars in Sag., Mondale won only Minnesota and D.C. and McGovern won only Massachusetts (and D.C.). Mondale ran on an anti-war platform (Sun opp Pluto), and McGovern was portrayed as a radical leftist (Mars trine Neptune). Gay rights and other cultural issues could become major if Dean is nominated. Dean's Mars is sextiled by Libra Venus which may be the "unconscious" influence driving and moderating him. (I count only sinister or open sextile aspects like in Greek astrology so the aspect is one-directional and not consciously "processed" by Mars. I also consider it a potential aspect not necessarily active.) It makes him difficult to read coming "from behind", esp. with Neptune conjunct Venus. Pluto is transiting Mars perhaps explaining the present tension. Mars is an impulsive planet in a mutable sign and is the Sun dispositor. Based on his wife's chart it's likely a significant influence (Sun dispositor in Aries, compatible relationship). It gives him the energy and is also conjunct Fortune, so prediction may become complicated (Bush's is also related to Mars, so his stocks improve with war and cultural confrontation unlike Bush Sr.). Another politician with Mars in Sag. is undersecretary John Bolton (critical of the UN), born 3 days after Dean. He may perhaps be considered somewhat radical too, probably less affected by Venus-Neptune than Dean.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #15 - on: 22.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
Richard Gephardt and Dick Cheney have Mars in Sagitarius also.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #16 - on: 23.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User CJ
 
Yes but I don't think it's strong for them and it's not the Sun dispositor. In my astrology a person is typically dominated by either Air-Fire or Earth-Water. Hard aspects are resolved in the way which is most "profitable". In Cheney's case I think he is dominated by Earth, his Mars is squared by the Moon, and he has 4 inner Earth-Water planets and 3 inner Air-Fire planets. So Earth-Water wins, it's a kind of minimization of energy. For Gephardt it may be more of a tie, but based on his wife's chart (heavy Gemini) his Moon in Aries is probably stronger than Mars.
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #17 - on: 24.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User estebon duarte CMA
 
Mars in Sagitarius within the sixth can explain the contention that arises in his work, his reactions (Mutable modality) to an aggressivley ambitious and philosophical work environment create conflict for him. As the Sun's rays are within the cusp of the sixth there will be some fame, though in Scorpio it may be more infamy. Jupiter ruling the tenth (Medieval rulerships/Alcabitius houses) contained within the sixth house, which it rules, creates a overly ambitious and goal oriented (Capricorn) professional life filled with aggressively philosophical and physically active friends who may be finacially supportive (Mars in Sagitarius conjunct P.Fortune while ruling the 11th house).
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #18 - on: 26.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Veleka
 
I just finished reading an article at Spin Buster that you may be interested in. It compares all the news articles about what happened at that pep rally and shows how negative press and camerawork can completely distort appearances. It's at http://www.cjr.org/blog/archives/cat_spin_buster.asp#000051#more and the story is titled "In A Hall of Mirrors, the Pundits Ponder Their Own Creation."
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re: Howard Dean
« Reply #19 - on: 27.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Southern Cross
 
Scorpio is a sign of powerful reaction, and Dean will be a major 2004 player despite the Iowa setback. Tough taskmaster Saturn in transit has ended his cakewalk to the nomination, however, and his upcoming Uranus oppositions to natal Saturn(the first occurs on April 12th with Sun 23*Aries= Bush´s MC) indicate not necessarily pleasant sudden surprises. We must analyze other candidate charts and await Super Tuesday before venturing who will be the Democratic nominee.  
 The Sun-Moon quindecile(only 0*02´ from being partile) indicates permanent tension between his secretive, private Scorpio self and his off-the-cuff, shoot-from-the-hip Gemini speech, as when he unwisely denied that Saddam Hussein´s capture made the US any safer. Such inability to see any redeeming virtue in military success reflects an Ivy League legacy of guilt over Viet Nam, where the "best and brightest" got the US bogged down and then blamed Nixon and Kissinger for not cutting and running. Dean´s verbal gaffes can be forgiven(MC ruler Neptune trine chart ruler Moon square), but they diminish(Virgo) his image of gravitas(Saturn). In reality, he is a good administrator(Jupiter trine Saturn) and would make a capable President.  
 Using the Koch system, Dean´s Moon(quick emotional expression) falls in the eleventh house of friends rather than the hidden twelfth. When he was Democratic front-runner in December and January, this brought him many opportunitic(Gemini) endorsements by party leaders. Since his Moon also quincunxes its dispositor twelfth-house ruler Mercury in Scorpio, Dean has attracted "secret enemies spreading disinformation." After the Iowa caucases, for example, he spoke to a room of noisy supporters, and his perfectly normal although animated pep talk was reported by some as a mentally unbalanced "primal scream." Elements of the press are actively using and abusing their role as reporters to manipulate the electorate against him(Pluto currently opposes Gemini Mars on the USA 1776 chart). Dean should have no illusions on the price he pays as Washington outsider.  
 Deans´s strongest appeal should be on job security(domiciled Jupiter in sixth trines Saturn) and reducing "welfare for the rich." Whiny moralizing about Iraq is not a winning issue, and since national security in general is not his strongest suit, we would advise Dean to turn the tables on the press and opponents by showing his strong Scorpio character and tackling head-on two of the most controversial issues in the War on Terrorism- the violation of statutory law in the Valerie Plame leak(likely culprit Dick Cheney) and the truth about TWA Flight 800(likely culprit Bill Clinton). On September 11, 2002, John Kerry said on Larry King Live that "...I served on the Intelligence Committee up until last year. I can remember after the bombings of the embassies, after TWA 800, we went through this flurry of activity, talking about it, but not really doing(anything)." Later that month he stated on Chris Matthews´s "Hardball" that "We´ve had terrorism for a long time now. We´ve had the Achille Lauro, the Munich Olympics,...the TWA 800, and it´s not going to disappear overnight." Either Senator John Kerry made false and irresponsible claims(this is not our view!), or TWA 800 was in fact shot down by terrorists, and the Clinton administration(whose supporters now work against Dean) helped pave the way to 9/11 by lying to the public.
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Current Planets
24-Apr-2014, 07:04 UT/GMT
Sun4Taurus1'46"
Moon0Pisces5'17"
Mercury1Taurus54'26"
Venus20Pisces7'46"
Mars13Libra19'38"r
Jupiter14Cancer0'38"
Saturn21Scorpio13'43"r
Uranus13Aries42'17"
Neptune7Pisces1'11"
Pluto13Capricorn33'31"r
TrueNode28Libra23' 3"
Chiron16Pisces20'18"
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