Talk:Berlin, Irving

Berlin was probably born in Mohilev, Belarus, not in Siberia. He was also born before the Russian world converted to the Gregorian calendar, in which case he was born on May 23, 1888 (Greg.)Bellczar 02:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

the Rodden Rating is DD for a reason

All data in ADB are already converted to Gregorian calendar, and this is customary for most biographies published in the west. The corresponding Julian calendar data would be 29 April 1888 jul.

Here is a quote from an article by Vitaly Charny, published on http://www.jewishgen.org/Belarus/newsletter/IrvingBerlin.htm (begin quote)

The future American songwriter was born in 1888 as the youngest of eight Beilin children and named Israel. He later observed his birthdays on May 11. In 1888 the Old Style (or Julian) calendar was in use in Russia; there was a twelve-day difference between that and the Western calendar. If it wasn't the Julian calendar that created confusion in transcribing his birthday, it might have been the use of the Jewish calendar. Either way, it is difficult to be certain about his birth date. (...)

"Irving Berlin: A Daughter's Memoir," by his daughter Mary Ellin Barrett, reveals that his family came from Tolochin in Mogilev guberniya (province of Russian Empire). Her account coincides with a number of records from his brothers and sisters. That's why Irving's draft registration and several other records give his birthplace as Mogilev. Several of Irving's siblings were born in Tolochin but family left town after their house was burned down, possibly torched, according to Edward Jablonski (a biographer of Irving Berlin, George Gershwin and Harold Arlen) in his book "Irving Berlin: American Troubadour" Vol. 1.

But Irving, who was the youngest child in the family, is frequently said to have been born in Temun, usually identified as Tyumen in Siberia. Some family members believe his father, Moses, a cantor, had taken a temporary position there, but there are no records found. Tymen, located far from the Pale of Settlement, was not much easier a place of destination for a Jewish family than a foreign country. Being a cantor or shochet wasn't a cause for Russian administration to let his family move out of the Pale.

There are several possibilities concerning his birth city. It could be Tyumen or Tumen, any one of several villages in Belarus or Ukraine but not the city in Siberia. However Siberian Tyumen will come first if somebody searches for the location with such name. It also sounds more interesting than a village nobody knows about.

The Beilin family moved to America in 1893 leaving behind in Tolochin the eldest son and married daughter (who later joined them in NY). The father was then forty-one or so (all dates in the story of the Beilins are approximate and suspect) and his mother about thirty-nine. The eldest of children who moved with their parents was 19-year-old Sarah.

In America their passenger arrival list shows the family name was originally BEILIN . It was altered to BALINE in the United States, and eventually Americanized to BERLIN by some, but not all, branches. In Belarus, BEILIN was a common name in the city of Minsk, but not in Mogilev Gubernia. Possibly family roots from Irving's father spanned back to that region. Belarus Jewish genealogy researcher David Fox suggested that Tyumen could be misspelled Igumen, the town located halfway between Tolochin and Minsk.

(end quote) I assume the confusion is the reason why Lois Rodden only gave rating DD (dirty data), but the confusion is more about location and time, not date. --Admin 06:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)